and his death have sent a different message to future terrorists loud and clear -- however long it takes, they will however long it takes, they will be hunted down. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com it's a celebrity transformation like no other. chastity bono, a little girl who grew up on tv, now a man called chaz. >> i don't have memories until later in life. until at least, like, 4 or 5, 6 i don't remember anything from my early childhood. >> tonight he's here to tell his story. >> why don't you like your picture? >> prebl because i didn't like the way i looked. i don't know. maybe i'll start to like it the more i see myself looking different. >> when did chaz know he was

going to be a man. how did he break the news to his mother cher. chaz bono, his first prime time interview. this is "piers morgan tonight." chaz bono tells his story in "transition, the story of how i became a man" and in the documentary "becoming chaz" which airs on own network. i have to start by saying i watched you on david letterman last night. one of the most amusing encounters i have seen on a talk show in years. he was so uncomfortable. he didn't know how to deal with what you were telling him, the enormity of what you had gone through. what was it like for you when you went on there? >> i had a really good time. i like dave a lot. i have always been a fan and he has a history with my family. so i wanted to go on the show. he represented a lot of people who really don't know about this issue. it gave me a great opportunity

to break it down, you know, really simply kind of do a trance gender 101. i was happy to do it. >> tell me this -- when he began laughing at what you were saying and some of the audience -- not all of them. did you feel awkward when that happened? >> no, not at all. no. it's that kind of a show. you know? it's a fun show. i never felt like people were laughing at me. it was kind of a funny situation -- me and dave talking about this stuff. so, no. i had a really good time. >> it was entertaining to watch. i just wonder how you felt. >> i felt good actually. >> for the reasons you said. like a lot of people, probably a slightly older generation would find this hard to deal with. >> and hard to understand, i think, more than anything. i mean, i never got the sense that dave was judging me or had any -- >> no, no. >> view at all other than not understanding it. >> do you think he got it by the

end? >> i think he was starting to get it, i do. >> do you think more lessons? >> yeah. you know, he was starting to get it. >> do you think it might be time to send him to trans gender classes? >> you know, i want to get him off saying "homosexual" so much. if i did that, it would be great. >> the book's fascinating. the story is fascinating. like most people i remember you as a little girl. sonny & cher show. you don't have much memory of that time which i find interesting. >> when i was really little on the show and of that -- the picture everybody has in their head and that i was probably 2 or 3. no. i really don't remember that. >> i want to play you a clip from the show just to remind people who don't remember. this was you on the sonny & cher show. >> you can be a good little angel or you can be a naughty little devil. >> i want to be a naughty

devil -- >> wait, wait, no. [ cheers and applause ] >> all right. then pull it. >> you don't remember that. now you have seen it again. >> right. >> what memory does it bring back to you, if anything? >> mostly the memory i have of that time was backstage. you know, the way kids have silly memories of things. i remember that we shot at cbs and it was right near the farmer's market and i used to like to go get mexican food. those types of weird things. >> do you remember being -- >> i don't remember -- >> part of a famous family? >> not at all. that didn't register at that point. as i got older it did but not about me. just when i was with my parents and especially my mom just how everybody else reacted i was, of course, aware of. >> what kind of girl were you as

you got past that stage and became 7, 8, 9, when you can start to remember? what kind of girl were you? >> i was, i guess what you would call a classic tomboy. what i would say was -- i was really a boy. i felt like a boy and my friends were all boys and i was comfortable in that space in school from ages probably, you know, 6 through 10, 11. and then as i started to get older and about to head into puberty, things started to get difficult. expectations of how a young lady should act started to creep in and then of course i hit puberty and my body just started to transform in a way that was exactly the opposite of what i wanted it to do. >> were you mature enough to understand that this transformation wasn't right for you? or did you just feel odd? >> it felt like it wasn't right for me, but at that point i didn't know about, you know,

being transgender. i didn't know people could transition. i had no idea. i just knew something felt incredibly wrong and what was happening to me, particularly -- i was very aware of my breasts and that they just felt wrong on my body and that i always tried to de-emphasize in every way. wear baggy shirts and really try to de-emphasize them in every way i could. >> at the same time you're going through this extraordinary experience and the feelings that you're having your mother, of course, is one of the world's most famous sex symbols, the embodiment of female beauty. >> right. >> did that make it more difficult for you? >> no. i don't think -- that was incidental. it was difficult in that i think as a mother and during that time period she had expectations of how she thought i was going to

be and there was friction between us because of that. but i don't think it mattered to me one way or the other that she was a sex symbol or any of those things. >> as you got older, into your teens, you began to think in your mind that possibly you were just gay, you were a lesbian. >> that's what i initially thought. when i was about 14 i realized i'm attracted to women. so i must be a lesbian. that must be what this feeling that i felt my whole life is. that must be the reason. >> and you weren't attracted to boys at all? >> never. no. though i have to say, i mean, i do -- i'm not used to having an hour. i can actually talk. >> don't worry. >> it's great. in looking back and really after transitioning there were incidents when i was younger where i had really, like, guy crushes that guys have on each other. i didn't realize it at the time and i thought, oh, this must be -- i must like him in the way a girl likes a guy.

and i would kind of, you know, pursue that and then go on a date or something and be like, this is absurd. i feel ridiculous. i don't want to be, you know, intimate with this person at all. but i really like him in a special way. it was like i was having bromances before i realized i was a guy. >> you had sex with a man once. >> once, yes. >> what was the experience like? >> just bland really. it wasn't a horrific traumatic experience. it was like; okay. >> why did you do that? >> it was immature. i was only 16 at the time. so many people would say to me because i was out to my friends and everything and people, when i would tell them would say, how do you know? you have never been with a man. so i wanted to do it so i could say, i have done it. i know. >> so you get to your late teens. you now assume you are a

lesbian. >> right. >> what is that like? you start to go out with girls. does it feel natural or normal to you at the time? >> it does, but there is an expectation of the girls i'm going out with that i'm supposed to act like a girl, too. and that felt weird. like in high school, you know, i had some experiences with girls who were experimenting more and were really probably straight and actually were probably responding to my male energy because i still know them and they have never been with any other women. so that felt good, but then after high school when i actually started going out with lesbians there was an expectation from them that i was supposed to act a certain way like a woman and that felt uncomfortable. >> you must be getting really confused. >> i was very confused and uncomfortable for a lot of my life. >> at what point does the

confusion you have when you think you're a lesbian start to transform into, there's something else here. >> right. >> and at what point do you work out what that may be? >> for me it was a long process actually. and it was probably around 30, 31. and i remember i was datinging somebody who had a lot of lesbian friends. so i was doing a lot of different -- going to a lot of social events. i can remember being at some big house barbecue and there were a lot of lesbians around and i was sitting back watching, thinking, looking at everybody. i realized that even the more masculine women there still had a strong female identity. it dawned on me that i never had that. and so at that point i started to think maybe i'm not a lesbian. if i'm not, what am i?

at that point i started to go back over my life in my head and put these different things together. >> we're going to have a short break. when we come back, we'll get to the moment when you decide, i want to be a man. >> okay. >> i'm also going to hear from nick cannon about a scam targeting his wife mariah carey and their babies. >> saying my wife was drinking beer and all that stuff. people will do anything to try to conjure up a story. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --

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everything is changing. there is so much clarity coming. i'm sure there will be more things i will discover that i didn't realize until i went on hormones and started to feel comfortable. >> i'll give you a mirror. >> nice and flat, huh? >> looks beautiful. >> there you go. >> that was from the documentary "becoming chaz." it's extraordinary. >> thank you. >> it's an extraordinary story and it centered around the pivotal moment when you decide, i actually want to be a man. >> mm-hmm. >> i'm going to do something about this. tell me about that moment. >> well, it was a long time coming. i think i started to put it together in my early 30s. and then suddenly, i was like, what can i do about this? i'm a public figure. if i transition, the whole

world's going to know. i felt like, you know, i'm just going to be -- i don't know -- a laughingstock. so it took me years and years to get over this myriad of fears that i had about it. in the end i think it was -- i finally started to put my needs above everybody else's. that's what it took for me. i was the kind of person who always worried about everybody else before me and thought of everybody else's feelings. >> this is my life. >> exactly. this is my life. i'm going to be 40. i need to do this for myself. and the actual moment happened kind of in two parts. in a therapy session where i had the epiphany. this is my life and i need to do this. i went home and was talking to jenny about it and we got into this huge fight. >> this is your girlfriend. >> my girlfriend.

>> she's coming on in a moment. >> exactly. i got so -- she triggered something in me in this fight and i had this primal experience happen of i think all of the repression, feelings i had stuffed down for so many years came out in this enormous primal scream and afterwards we both knew this is got to happen. >> remarkably -- i don't know her at all, but jennifer stayed with you. >> yes. >> and has supported you, difficult though it's been for her. >> mm-hmm. >> we'll discuss with her how difficult it's been. pretty amazing that she's done that. >> it is. >> we'll listen to a clip of your mother cher, her reaction to your transition. >> it's been difficult for different -- anyone different from burning people they thought were witches, any time you're different you're going to pay some sort of price. it depends on the culture as to

what price you pay. you know? and chaz works with children as young as 3 and 4 that just feel that they are in the wrong body and she does counseling, you know -- he does counseling. so it's a very difficult thing. >> even your mother's not quite sure if you're he or she, chaz. that's an uncomfortable moment. >> i mean for her, look, it's ingrained. 40 years of saying "she." so it takes time to get out of the habit. >> be honest. >> okay. >> your mom, from all i have read, wasn't happy about the fact that you were a lesbian to start with. your father sonny reacted better to that. is that correct? >> that is correct, yeah. >> when you come with the other whammy which is, mom, if you thought that was bad, take a load of this. how did she react? by then she'd gotten used to you

being a lesbian. >> definitely. >> she was supportive and became a loving mother. >> absolutely. >> then you hit her with the new bomb shell. how did she react? >> again. we talked about it over time. it wasn't like one bomb shell. >> she knew. >> she knew it was something i was feeling and struggling with and i was trying to figure out. when i finally went to her shortly after the incident with jen and toll her, i'm going to do this. you know i have been struggling with this and i realize this is something i need to do and i'm going to do it. she was unbelievably supportive. just like amazing. i couldn't believe it. she was so calm and we had a wonderful talk about it. and then i think as the reality started to hit her, it became more difficult for her. she's talked about when my voice started to change it really hit her. >> she's now got a son for the first time in 40 years.

>> yes. she had to grieve the loss of her daughter. of that little bit of female side that i had. and as time has gone on, i think she's become more comfortable and understanding about it. >> you certainly put her through the hoops, haven't you, chaz? be honest. >> i guess. but i have always been a pretty, you know, good kid, a good guy. you know, this is how i was born. >> do you think your mother knew? do you think she had an inkling from an earlier age? >> i think when i was really young she thought i was going to grow up and be gay. i think that's what she thought. i don't think she thought this. in the '70s, we didn't know about this. >> completely. to your great credit you have become kind of a trail blazer. >> yeah. >> the moment you told your mother about it, she being famous around the world, you

having grown up in a fame bubble, you both would have known the moment it got out it would be a huge story possibly to beat you both with. >> i think that was one of the areas that we kind of, you know, disagreed on a little bit. i think she thought it was going to be much more difficult. i had faith that we'd come to a place as a culture that we would be able to be more respectful. >> tell me, since this has all blown up and you have been on tv everywhere, have you been vindicated on your belief on that? when you walk around, are people supportive to you? >> very. >> are you surprised how far america has come? >> i have been amazed how the media has covered this and how fair and open-minded everybody seemed to be. yeah. you know, if somebody recognizes me, i always get, you know, a really positive response from them. you know -- >> of course had you done this 25 years ago.

>> it would have been different. >> you may have been abused in the street. you have had none of that. >> none of that. >> that's a remarkable sign of the times. >> yes. >> does it make you feel good? >> absolutely. it makes me feel really great. i went to the yankees store to buy a cap and the guy recognized me and couldn't have been cooler. hey, chaz. oh, cool. that was it. >> that must make you feel good. >> hey, chaz. that's cool. >> exactly. >> we'll take a break. when we come back we'll come to somebody else who's cool which is your girlfriend who stood by you throughout all this. >> mm-hmm. >> who is as brave as you. >> she is. ♪ [ male announcer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call

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well, i was sober when we met. but when things get tough i start to drink. i remember when chaz told me that he was going to do this and i said, well, i can't be sober for this. >> that's chaz bono's girlfriend jennifer who joins us now. in many ways you have been through an even more dramatic period of your life than chaz. at least he knew. you didn't have a clue, did you? >> early in the relationship i was told by a friend of his that he was, indeed, transgender and i asked him. he said -- this was in our first

year and within the first few months. he said he was, but he wasn't planning on doing anything about it at the time. he was comfortable living masculine as possible but he would, indeed, want to do it at some point. >> what was your honest reaction when he said that? >> i compartmentalized it and put it away. >> wow. that's something. >> it's amazing what i can compartmentalize. >> your girlfriend says i may become a man and -- >> i said, hmm, we're okay for you. i went about my day, but i knew for years we would have to deal with it at some point. >> the great advantage of having you as a girlfriend is i think you're by sexual, correct? >> correct. >> so you would be the perfect person to potentially find him as attractive as a man as he was as a woman. >> right. >> the question now is do you?

>> oh, more attractive as a man. >> you lucked out. >> i did. >> he did. yeah. i mean, you know, i am attracted to both men and women but it is different to have that happen in the same person. >> as it was un-furling, when you broke free and he was going for the treatment and the testosterone and the hormones and everything else and he's becoming a man in front of your eyes, beginning to shave and you had your breasts removed and everything. so you're physically becoming a man. when you're seeing that process, what's going through your mind? was it concerning you? did you freak out? did you have arguments? >> well, there are two components. there is the physical and emotional. the physical, the major change first was the top surgery. i was very nervous about that. i was very nervous about going

to san francisco. that's where he did it. i had no idea how i would react. but to my surprise i was thrilled. like i got it. when i saw his chest the way it looks now i thought, oh, right, this makes sense. i was surprised. i actually thought i might miss the other, but it worked. >> physically there wasn't a problem. what about psychologically? >> emotionally, we went through a lot of work. you go from being in a female dynamic, even though i believe chaz was always male. he had estrogen. so you have two estrogens in the house and then it go -- had to

deal with the most through this is anger. i got really angry and i got really shut down and i put her

through a lot. it was really hard and we had to really work in therapy and everything to get back on track. >> and how are things right now? >> really good. >> very good. i have a year and two months sober. and, you know, things levelled out. i feel like we might disagree on this but i feel that his -- i don't know. i feel that his levels of testosterone -- i make up medical advice in my head. >> it's true. >> but his hormonal level as balanced. he's adjusted more. >> that's what i think it is. i have adjusted to it more. >> adapted more. >> you physically going through that when you get pumped full of hormones and testosterone you aren't as balanced. >> most men, you know, it happens when they are teenagers and they have time to get used to it. for me it happened at 40. i really had to adjust to

having, you know, a range of emotion i didn't have before. >> we have a short break. are you going to get married now? >> oh, my gosh. >> and, i don't know, can we talk about children? >> sure. [ male announcer ] nature is unique... pure... and also delicious. like nature valley. granola bars made with crunchy oats and pure honey. nature valley -- 100% natural. 100% delicious.

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>> okay. draw back a little. now push in. pull it out fast. okay. good, jenny. >> people think i'm a -- idiot. >> well, you know. >> it's so easy. i don't know why you were freaking out. you wouldn't let me do it for -- what, six months? did it even hurt? >> no. it was good. thanks. >> you're on your way, kid. >> greater love. a woman that can do that. >> right. >> do you ever miss the female chaz? >> not so much anymore, but i went through a period where i definitely did. i had to adjust to the new bits of male chaz in the sense of testosterone and estrogen. there was a softness that chaz had as a female that is

different now as a male. >> from a technical point of view are you now a straight guy? >> sure, yeah. >> and you can't be a lesbian anymore. >> i'm a bisexual woman. >> you have remained one? >> i stayed that way. there you go. >> do you amuse yourselves when you explain this to people who don't get it? >> we amused dave. >> what did you think? >> i thought it was great. when he heard bisexual girlfriend he was like, oh, i don't know, forget it. so, i get it, you know? i suppose it can be confusing to people. we are in a straight relationship now. >> the obvious question then becomes you have been together six years now? >> six in august. >> will you get married? >> i would like to. will we, piers? wi will we? >> chaz?

here's your chance. >> we have been engaged for two years. kind of had to put things on hold a little bit. i think the other thing is we have both been real -- >> i think the lady would like you to get on with it. >> she would. >> now being a man you have no excuse. >> no. but the one thing we talked about is how we are big supporters of marriageequality. it's weird to be able to do it now. >> you're legally now able to marry as man and wife? >> yeah. >> would you choose to do that. >> i think we will. hopefully people will understand that's something we want to do. >> before you were considering a civil partnership? >> yeah. >> actually we weren't. >> okay. >> it was legal for a while. >> we had a window. >> i knew at that point i was going to transition. it didn't feel right to me to get married as two women because i didn't feel like i was a woman.

>> it seems to me you have a lot of excuses to avoid taking jennifer down the aisle and she made it crystal clear. >> i know. >> i agree. >> he's now behavinging like a typical man. >> he is. >> which is comforting. >> no, no. it's something we are going to be doing. >> is there a window we are talking about? >> there is no ultimatum. i'm here. we're here. we have been through a lot. >> within a year definitely. >> not to make excuses but we went through a lot. i transitioned, she went to grad school. we were making the film. i wrote the book. >> i'm sober again. it was a nightmare. >> now i feel once this is over we can sit down and plan a wedding. >> that would be some wedding. don't you think? >> i hope so. it would be nice. >> the circumstances would be remarkable. >> yeah. >> quite a moment for you two. >> it would be a lot. >> do you dream of a church wedding? have you thought you may do it one day? >> it's funny. we differ on our -- how we would

like to get married. >> quiet registry office with no one watching. big church wedding. >> i was raised catholic. >> like me. >> i feel i need to be married by a religious figure. a rabbi, priest, someone with a connection to god. i don't know. >> yeah. i'm not -- >> he's not like that. >> i was never religious. i really want my step-mom to do it. >> that's good for me. >> to me that would be special. >> perfect timing. we are going to talk to your step-mother who is a remarkable woman. >> amazing. >> we can put the question to her about the wedding of the century. >> oh, my goodness. >> also we have nick cannon on the extraordinary tabloid scam targeting his twins with mariah carey. ttd# 1-800-345-2550

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i'm back with chaz bono and his girlfriend jennifer. we are also being joined by chaz's step-mother who is a congresswoman, mary bono mack. we left on a cliff hanger where i managed to hear a potential

marriage between the newly male chaz and jennifer. chaz was saying you are entitled to act as the person that marries them. the obvious question is would you like to do that? >> well, piers, great timing, but first i want to commend you on being able to reach out to chaz and put the squeeze on him to get this done. my husband told me something that's very important with marriage. that is, you can be right or you can be happy. and chaz, jenny said a church and i'm so honored you would suggest me. they need to work it out further rather than the pressure tonight. i'm honored and chaz is one of the greatest lessons in my life. i'm honored that he would request that of me. >> without wishing to push it too far but clearly jennifer has expressed her wish. shouldle we get to a stage within the year-long window

within which chaz has now said he would be held to and we get to the church and you are asked formally to officiate would you do it? >> you know, honestly i would be deeply honored to. i think we have to have family discussions and i don't see why i wouldn't. but being put on the spot right here to do it, i guess i would feel more comfortable if i heard the two of them make the commitment in the actual ask. >> i guess i'm managing to maneuver this the way jennifer would like it to go. let me move away from this to something more serious. i'm fascinated to know what you think sonny bono would have made of this. chaz made it clear that sonny was more tolerant when he said he was going to be a lesbian than his mother was. would it be right to assume he would have been equally tolerant by this turn of events? >> it's so hard to guess how sonny would have felt about

this, you know, any more than anything else. he's been gone 13 years. t it's hard to second guess him. my hunch is that he would have been frustrated or scared or worried. you know, all of the fears you have about this but eventually he would have come around and done what you do. that is you love your family and you do your best to help them through whatever they are going through. i know that sonny loved chaz with every bone in his body. i believe that he would have loved him no matter what. i don't believe that would have changed. >> it would be fair to say that your support for what is happening here wouldn't be massively popular with the republican party that you represent. is that an unfair thing of me to observe? >> oh, you know, this is family. and family is so important and chaz has been such a hugely important part of my life, but the same token, i kind of rib chaz because i'm not really popular in chaz's community

either. so we have some fun going back and forth on that. >> it's true. >> sometimes we agree to disagree on things, but at the end of the day, chaz campaigned for me when i ran as a republican running for congress. so we put our love for one another ahead of politics. >> yeah. actually, i mean, it's been an amazing experience because, i mean, mary and i, we've gotten along and love each other deeply. it goes beyond politic, it really does. i talk about this in the book that, you know, that side of the family was so amazingly there for me. and sometimes we get in these, you know, party battles, and they are just things more important to that and you can't just books by their cover all the time. >> having said that -- let me ask you, congresswoman. that's a very decent thing for him to say that but there is a political aspect to that and there are big issues involving the whole range of gay and lesbianing rights, transgender

rights and so on. do you hope that the publicity surrounding chaz's story may lead to a more liberal attitude towards this kind of thing? >> well, you know, i don't want to throw out any political terms or label anybody anything here. but i'm always one who believes we can learn something from everybody's story wherever we can hear it that there are bit was it to learn and we can all gain some wisdom and happiness watching other people's stories and accepting them and trying to hear a little bit. you know, i'll be very candid. this is a strange story and hard to wrap your arms around it. we're still coming to terms with. what i'm not coming to terms with is i love chaz keeply and chaz has been a huge and very important part of my life and my children's life. that's what's important to me here. chaz and i learned a long time ago because the last rough period with sonny and chaz on some political differences, and i think we learned that we don't

take those differences when it starts getting a little bit askew we stop talking politics. it's not worth it. you're making pasta and behind the living room door an you're home. we just don't do it. we agree to disagree and love and laugh and that's really cool. >> to sum up, love conquers all, right, chaz? >> absolutely, i does. mary is 100% right with my dad we let that get in the way and when he passed away, you know, it's like never again. and so you know mary and i love each other. we do. if it gets too heated we back right off because it's our family that matters and being part of that family and that's what's important. and i have an amazing time with that family. >> well, look, chaz, i think you're an amazingly courageous man. >> thank you snipe think you're an amazingly courageous woman. and come woman you're an

amazingly courageous and supportive stepmother. the whole story i fine very uplifting and the fact that you're now happy and you're happy makes me happy. i think it makes everybody happy. doesn't it? if you're not happy you're a cynic and you don't deserve happiness. thank you for joining me. good luck with it all. i want to be at the wedding with my cameras recording every moment live on cnn. fair enough? have we got a deal? >> we have a deal. >> get her down the aisle, chaz. that's what guys have to do. >> thank you very much. coming up anybody cannon on his infant twins and a tabloid scandal that targets the baby.

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controversy tonight involving mariah carey and her infant twins. nick cannon said the babies have not come home from the hospital but are the tar guest a shocking tabloid scandal. this was a shocking story. when you were in the hospital and maria was there you got set

up for a tabloid sting. >> more than one incident, actually. there's been photographers actually in the hospital posing as different people. real employees trying to get pictures of our kids when you think it's sad trying to make a buck off of newborn babies. recently there was the child protective services were called with allegations that, you know, there was some drinking and drugs and all that going on while in the hospital, which, again, makes no sense to me. like, how would a hospital even allow that? but it all started where a nurse suggested to my wife that if you drink guinness, a small amount of guinness, the dark beer it improves the yeast for

breastfeeding. i don't know if someone overheard that and said my wife was drinking beer. people will do anything to conjure up a story. >> somebody turned up from child protection. >> literally talking to me. of course, when i spoke to the person from the child of protective service they said this is ridiculous, we're going to make sure this isn't a case. >> horrible thing to have to go through. >> to have to teal with that. my wife in the state she's in, we're in the hospital and to even have to think of someone possibly wanting to investigate your children and all. it's just -- it's sad at the end of the day we have to go that far. >> one of the down sides of fame that you were talking about? >> it is. but you got to understand this is what we have to deal with. it's sad. i'm more disappointed in society more than having to be at odds because we're famous. people would even go to those lengths to do