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tv   Worldwide Exchange  CNBC  March 20, 2024 5:00am-6:01am EDT

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it is 5:00 a.m. at cnbc headquarters. i'm frank holland. here's your "five@5." the s&p hitting a new high. futures pointing to some pressure at the opening. atop the agenda, the fed and the latest rate decision. we're watching for signal from jay powell and company. still in the early stages, what nvidia is telling jim cramer on the back of the compy's new chips. and the faa setting off a
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recent wave of safety issues. what the airplane giant has to do. and a stock split. it's wednesday, march 20th, 2024. you're watching "worldwide exchange" right here on cnbc. ♪ good morning and welcome to "worldwide exchange." thank you so much for being here with us. let's get you ready for the trading day ahead. we're going to get a check of the markets with the u.s. futures getting set for another day of the markets. take a look at the futures. in the red across the board. looks like the dow would open 15 points higher. slightly under pressure. it ended extremely vol a title yesterday. the dow seeing its best day in nearly a month. let's get a check of the bonds and the big fed rate decision later today. taking a look right now, we're
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seeing the benchmark coming in at 4.27. we're going to talk much more about expectations coming up. we also look at the oil market continuing its bounceback hovering at its highest level since october. take a look ooh right now. we see wti trading at 82 a barrel. it's down 1%. brent crude trading at 86, down almost three-quarters of a percent. our arabile gumede is in the room with much more on the action. good morning. >> good morning, frank. the inflation picture is one everyone is looking forward to. the bank of england is anticipated to put out its
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inflation numbers. it's down from previously. the market had anticipated 3.5%. doesn't move the time line for when the bank of england begins to cut interest rates in the uk. we'll certainly see as they announce it at their meeting. you see pressure for the ftse 100 thus far. cac 40 is the biggest decliner thus far, 0.8% on the back of kering going down. 14% down. that's because the gucci maker has actually signaled that asia pasting is the specific market where they're seeing a drawdown in sales. 20%. the market is not liking it. luxury stocks all seeing some red across europe, frank. >> arabile, thank you very much. now we need to get to breaking news on chipmaker intel. the biden administration is announcing that company is set to receive the biggest award yet from the chip set. megan joins us this morning.
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how much is intel expectied to receive? >> they're expecting $8.5 billion in direct grants to further build out the semiconductor manufacturing efforts in the u.s. they'll top the tax investment credit, which will be 25% of capital expenditures. we don't have a dollar figure there, but that will be a big number as well. overall, intel is expected to invest over $100 billion in additional private investment over the next five years and should create jobs in construction an manufacturing as they build new facilities in ohio and improve on facilities in portland and new mexico. now, frank, this is a preliminary agreement. there's going to be a long way to go for many unto start flowing, but it is still a major
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step of providing chip production in the u.s. >> shares up. you mentioned folks are going to be on the leading technology. what impact will that have? of course, this week we're talking ai chips after the news conference. >> we sure are. these are the most highly advanced ones. we talk about how chips are in every item. these most advanced chips, right now the u.s. produces a lot of them. they're the ones that need to develop the most quickly. these are manufacturing facilities that can really stay on the cusp and keep the u.s. market competitive. >> big news for intel. our megan cassella with that news, thank you very much. also keep this in mind
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today. pat gelsinger is going to have much more on his company securing that c.h.i.p.s. act funding in our first cnbc interview with jon fortt at 9:30 a.m. eastern and again at 4:00 p.m. at "closing bell: overtime." don't want to miss that. time now to turn back to the markets. we're going to be joined by the chief global strategist. seema, good morning. always good to see you. >> good morning. >> no decision expected operates, but a lot expected on the jay powell meeting. what was it mean when it comes to the tone and how they see rate cuts going forward? >> sure. this is a pivotal meeting. what we're anticipating is the dot plot still holds the
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forecast. you need two lenders to raise the forecast. i think there's an easy way of saying you're going to see a more hawkish fed coming out today. that's why i think it's so pivotal. it's raisinging some doubts how quick will u they can get inflation back to target. that will be the key they're watching out for from powell and the press conference. it's going to be, as i said, very important for markets today and what comes up after this meeting. >> seema, i know you're focused on that higher than expected cpi, headline of 3.2%. i want to ask you. jay powell on capitol hill said they're going to continue to look at the inflation reports, and coming up in a week and a have, we have pce, which we often call the preferred gauge. >> right. and the report we've had so far gives an indication of what to
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expect for the pce number. that's also going to be a little hotter than what was initially expect. these are important prints, but you're right to say, look, we have been expected -- we haven't been expecting this to be a straight downward line. it was always going to be quite bumpy and quite a volatile move. the problem is once you got reports like that, it does introduce some hesitation, some doubts how easily the get is going to get back to that 2% level. i would say the next print in march and, of course, april, those could be very, very important prints. if they come out better than expected, the market will have quite a significant setback because there will be growing concerns that you're looking at growing inflation trend. >> i think this is a real concern. how much of your thesis is it depending on cuts, the possibility of two rate cuts? does that change your outlook at least when it comes to u.s. equities?
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>> it's a great question. for equities. if they were to come out and cancel the dot plot this year, then maybe that would be a setback. but that would be short-lived from a broad perspective because after the earnings perspective is still very strong, that is really big. however, when you start to look at pockets like the small cap area, they are fairly dependent on the idea there will be rate cuts coming through this year. so it just depends on with which parts of the market you're looking at. the broad markets will do well either way. they've been underappreciated. we have been hoping we'll have a stronger halsecond half of the year. >> so many people coming on this show and talking about the small caps. as you mentioned, it's deeply depended on the cut this year. seema shah, great to see you. thank you very much. if you want to know more go to cnbc.com/pro for exclusive
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insights and analysis. joining us for our top corporate stories, silvana henao. good to see you. >> good morning. we're watching shares of chipotle jumping after a stock split. we're seeing shares move up almost 5% in the premarket. the split is subject to shareholder approval at itsd upcoming meeting in early june. if approved, the shares are expected to start trading on a post-split basis on june 26. boeing is reportedly looking at how spirit aerosystems could potentially end or sharply reduce its ties to ira bust. according to reuters, spirit's work for boeing's european rival poses complications in its bid to buy its former subsidiary. meanwhile the fa's administrator is sounding off on boeing's recent wave of high-profile safety issues. in an interview with cnbc, michael whittaker says
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improvements at boeing is a must. >> there are issues around the safety at boeing, that their priorities have always been on production and not safety and quality. what we're shifted on now is shifting that focus from production to safety and quality. and jetblue scaling back on a service on a number of routes. in a memo to after the seen by cnbc, the carrier will reduce its departures from los angeles airport from 34 a day to 24, the apparent move coming as jetblue looks to cut costs following its failed bid for spirit airlines and engine issues that have grounded some of its planes, frank. >> silvana, good to see you. we'll see you later in the show jo we've got a lot more to come on "worldwide exchange" including the w.e.x. word of the day. but first an optimistic view on chip data. plus shares of microstrategy
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getting slapped a bit as its bit on bitcoin is drawing back. a busy hour ahead when "worldwide exchange" continues. stay with us.
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welcome back to "worldwide exchange." we start with money oving, microstrategy falling.
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they buy more shares of bitcoin as they scoop up 9,000 additional bitcoins. this follows 12,000 following a debt sale last week. shares down almost 3.5%. super micro announcing it plans to sell 2 million shares. the stock was the worst performer in the s&p yesterday but has surged more than 2% just this year alone. shares of super micro down just about 2%. also macy's confirming to cnbc it's agreed to open its books. the department store's currently weighing an improvement takeover bid from both of those investment companies. they had rejected the initial offer. they're conceptually flat, lower right now. coming up later on, micro announcing it's boosted by ai
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space and they see plenty of upside to the stock, which has already jumped more than 60% in the past year. micro started mass production with chips that will be used in blackwell's gpu. and jensen wang spoke to jim cramer saying they're predicting tremendous growth ahead. >> we're in the beginning of this ai computing ramp. >> how do you decide who's going to get that? >> let's talk about nvidia. jordan, good morning. great to have you here. >> great to be here. thanks, frank. >> i think the best place to kind of pick up here is on jensen huang or jensen.
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i think we're on a first name basis now, we see the guy so much. he talked to jim cramer. he went on to say at the gtc event, it's in everything. chips, software. in your mind, how much is that real? how much is that hype? >> i tend to give him the benefit of the doubt just because of what he's accomplished and what he's done over the last three or four decades. so u a so i actually think it's not hype. i think there are areas that i have to improve outside of the gpus. they're moving quickly into software they've never been. when you look at the diversification, they have all these partners that want to work with them partially because of this new, you know, drive for more ai everywhere globally but
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also because they have the best product out there. >> let's talk about the market. very optimistic. i want to ask you. has the outlook for this company changed following that announcement from nvidia that micron will eventually be a supplier for this new blackwell platform? >> i would say before the gtc event and the blackwell announcement, it was very well understood and known because of micron management they would be qualifying and selling these new high band microchips and blackwell that's going to come out later this year, but the existing hopper. so you're going to have to hear on the call from them how that's tracking. it really starts to ramp up in their august-ending q4 and then much more into their next fiscal year, 2025, that kind of begins starting in september and onward. yeah, you'll hear a lot about
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the memory and their relationship with nvidia tonight on their earnings call. >> i also want to talk about they're other businesses. they have other businesses that they're focused on. so what's your outlook for some of the other businesses that micron provides chips for? >> yeah, see, that's a great question because everyone right now is all ai everything. it's a craze. it's a frenzy. a and, you're right, most of the revenue comes from smartphones and a lot of data center and enterprise servers. for the most part those areas are still soft. i don't think investors are expecting any quick snapback. i think what they want to hear is that inventories are kind of coming down in the end markets and demand is stable to maybe starting to improve a little bit. i think the biggest area that will be of focus is the
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enterprise area. our company's starting. >> very quickly before we let you know, some intel news. intel is going to be the biggest beneficiary of the c.h.i.p.s. act. shares up 10%. what's your news? >> that was very well telegraphed. even in intel's big event they hosted a couple of weeks ago, they had a speech by gina raimondo who basically said to expect a larger war coming. it's good news, but, again, i think it's kind of priced into the stock if they move up. i would also say one of the catalysts for micron is they're very well positioned to get government money as well probably in the. coming month. >> interesting. i meant what i saterle earlier, shares up 3%. on a serious note, thank you for your time. >> have a great day. coming up on "worldwide exchange," putting in face time. why apple's tim cook's visit to
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solutions. barclay reinstates broadcom at just over $1,400, this as the company joins its firm names as it looks at a second wave of ai. keybanc getting a boost to its price target on netflix, raising it to $705 from $580. netflix's content is improving and it should drive a ramp-up in prices, price increases, and revenue. apple's ce tim cook is currently in shanghai. the company's retail store opens in that city tomorrow. there's no word whether cook will actually be there. this comes as there's falling iphone sales and competition from huawei. nvidia is looking to buy its
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next generation chips. at the same time samsung says it expects $1 million or more in revenue to come from its next batch of chips and hopes to create better profit share than market share. and gucci sales declined for the first time. they issued a profit warning due to planned investments and its fashion houses to reinvigorate the core brand. coming up on "worldwide exchange," the key question our next guest plans to ask jay powell following the central bank's latest policy decision. and as nbc celebrates wo women's heritage month we're sharing stories with cnbc change makers and 50 women who have changed business. as we head to break, here's michelle zatlyn. >> a change maker forges a path.
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there's a lot more on "worldwide exchange." here's what's on deck. the fed is looking at its policy path forward. why a wave of cuts continues to shrink. ahead of that decision, the s&p is notching its 18th new high this year. futures, however, are fighting to keep the gains going. and the $53 billion battle just rolls on as chevron's ceo gets a chance to weigh in on its hurdle with the energy dispute. it's wednesday, march 20th, 2024. you're watching "worldwide exchange" right here on cnbc. ♪ welcome back to "worldwide exchange." i'm frank holland. let's get you ready for the trading day ahead. we're going to get a check on the markets and the u.s. stock futures. following another record day. take a look at futures. we're seeing them under a bit of pressure. the dow would open 18 points
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lower and s&p and nasdaq firmly in the red as well. yesterday, stocks finished higher in what was kind of a volatile session with the s&p notching its record 18th close of the year and the dow seeing its best day in nearly a onth. this year we're watching shares of intel on the back of that breaking news that the biden administration is announcing the company's set to receive the biggest award next from the c.h.i.p.s. act, nearly $20 million in grants and loans. taking a look at shares right now, shares are up just about 3.5%. a big spike from intel. you're seeing this. our megan cassella broke the news a short time ago right here on "worldwide exchange." markets, of course, they're preparing for the big event. the fed's latest rate decision is due out at 2:00 p.m. the central bank is expected to hold rates steady. the fed must scale back the
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market'sexpectations for interest rate cuts this year. that sentiment being echoed in the latest cnbc fed survey with june being pegged as the month most likely for a rate cut. confidence in that happening is slipping a bit, from 59% to 70% in our previous survey. for more, let's bring in gina smyly. she joins us on the cnbc newsline. gina, good morning. it's also great to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> always great to have you. your most recent article focused on inflation being more persistent than previously thought. and you're focused on the reaction to c pcpi. >> i think we're not seeing the
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progress we previously enjoyed when it comes to the inflation ratings. they can't completely ignore the fact that inflation was coming down and now you see a straight line right around 3%. i think, you know, their official partner, the expenditure number is still a bit low and is expected to stabilize at 3% even with the core inflation. but i think they've got to be at least wary that maybe the progress that they've seen which has been so steady toward the end of the last year might be beefed up. >> you say wary. i think they like to say data-dependent. i want to ask you. i asked one of our previous guests yesterday. you're looking at headline cpi. coming up, we have cpe that we often call the prae fehred gauge. generally, the most consensus thinking is they focus on core as opposed to headline. coming up, what was more important, the cpi coming up or the cpi we just had? >> i think they both matter in
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their own way. the cpe is the one they officially target. so if they're making decisions, they have to think about what happened with cpi. they know they've done that. it's likely to look a little firmer. and so i thinkboth of these matter. i think the core numbers that you refer to, those are the ones they're going to be watching very closely. a measure of things that are responsive to wage increases. that affects the housing measure that has been a little firmer than many had expected over the last couple of months, and that's going to make them a little bit nervous. that i think that's the measure they can dial on by slowing down the economy and the fact it's not taking it up. it's not good from their perspective. >> we're focused the rate decision, but the fed's got to get a handle on it. the other one is the expectations of the dot plot.
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>> what do you think of the meeting coming up? >> we've seen rate cuts this year. it's entirely possible that's going to fall back to rate cuts, dial back the expectation for how much they're going to roll the costs this year. i think that would be neatable obviously if it came alongside sort of an upgrade and how much growth we're excelling to see and if it came alongside a downgrade and how much disinflation we're expecting to see. i think we'll be closely watching. then we also might hear something about the balance sheet. we know the fed is going to discuss it. i think it's caused a lot of moving parts. >> quite a few. you're going to be looking eye to eye with jay powell and
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you'll be in the room to ask a question. i want to ask you, what question, if you can telegraph it to us a bit, what question do you plan to ask or what question needs to be asked or addressed or what needs to be clarified? >> it depends where i fall on the order. one thing i'm really interested in, he suggested that the time for rate cuts is going to come soon at his congressional testimony a few weeks ago. i want to know what that meant. you know, how quickly are we talking here. and, b, i want to know why would you cut rates at a moment when inflation seems to be stubborn. what do you see as a risk to this threat that it's more a risk. some version of that would be my question. >> jeanna smialek, thanks so much for your time. time now for the corporate
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stories. silvana henao is back. >> good morning. chevron's ceo speaking out on the hess deal. this coming one day after exxon ceo said they're not trying to acquire hess while it disputes with chevron over its guy guianna oil. >> we're confident the arbitration will affirm our confirmation of the plan. >> new regulations around u.s. vehicles could be underway. the biden administration is reportedly expected to announce new auto emission standards that relax tailpipelimits for three years before eventually reaching the same standards set by the environmental protection agency. the changes, which could be
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unveiled as soon as today come as sales of electric vehicles show signs of slowing. the auto industry has cited lower sales growth whelp arguing against the epa standardser and passenger vehicles. speaking of these, the u.s. is accusing two men of stealing tesla trade secrets. one of the two men is being held in new york without bail and attempting to sell them technology usedon tesla battery parts. they're from a canadian producer. prosecutors say they had access to drawings and other documents that allowed others to copy the manufacturing process, frank. >> silvana, thank you very much. coming up here on "worldwide exchange," a cnbc exclusive with the ceo of mobilei and how it's allowing vw to go hands-free.
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and u.s. possibly wanting to take a payment out of europe's trade book. it's marking a new all-time low. dominating the top ten, finland right at the top. pepsi in its battle for coke. subway will sell all pepsi products and continue to sell frito-lay snacks along with other snacks. taylor swift breaks the disney+ record. swifties have watched more than 16 million hours of isth movie since its release. wow. "worldwide exchange" coming back right after this. into the vending area. oh, not the fries!
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welcome back to "worldwide exchange." hands-free driving has come under extreme scrutiny recently involving accidents where systems were partially or fully engaged. mobileye announcing there are new plans to be embraced all around the world. phil lebeau spoke with the ceo. over to you. >> let me bring in the ceo of mobileye joining us from london
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today. let's talk about this partnership with volkswagen how quickly will you with able to bring limited hands-free driving in some of the vw partw portfol? >> good morning. we're talking about a 2026 time frame, talking about double the figure of car models of the volkswagen group including porsche and audi and other brands. it's coming in three steps. the first step is hands-off but eyes on. it can drive everywhere on highways and roads and urban roads.
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the next is the highway. the driver cannot pay attention and do something else legally-wise. we're talking 100 miles infrom point to point. and the next is powering mobile taxis on the microbus platform. everything is converging toward the end of 2026. >> it's coming quickly, amnon, but last week nhtsa out with a scathing report where it analyzed driving-assist systems, many of them hands-freeing with a number of them already being in vehicles sold, and they said, look, this technology is not ready for prime time. it raises a question. are you seeing more people questioning how quickly this technology comes to market than
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perhaps we saw two years ago when there was a bit of a frenzy regarding hands-free driving. >> well, i think when we're talking about hands-free driving, there are three chapters to this story. it's more nuanced than just robo taxis. one chapter is safety. today driving assist is primarily based on the front-facing camera, front-facing radar and provides limited safety. when you have a system based on 360-degree awareness of cameras and other sensors, you can provide a much higher degree of safety regardless of whether the driver is hands-off or not hands-off. this is one aspect of it. it provides that level of safety. second, is providing this valuable proposition of buying back your time where you can legally not pay attention to the road. and the third chapter is the
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robo tech season. in order to create a good and safe eyes-on/hands-off system, you need a driver monitoring system, and you need to have a very, very fine-tuned driver monitoring system to make sure the driver does not abuse the system, rely too much on the eyes on system and not pay attention. i think there's a good integration -- >> i hate to interrupt you. a quick question before frank has one. would you admit most people using these systems around the world, you and everyone else, most are not supervising them as they're driving. they're kind of autopiloting, saying, it's on, i don't need to pay attention. would you at least admit that? >> we have -- in china, we have 200,000 such vehicles, and i think the level of safety that
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those vehicles provide are much, much higher than the safety of current ridriver assist. i think it provides much higher safety levels than anything out on the road today. >> frank, i know you have a question. go ahead. >> how are you doing? frank holland back here at cnbc headquarters. i want to switch gears just a bit. intel appears to be a large shareholder with the c.h.i.p.s. act getting the biggest amount of funding out of any company so far with leading edge technology. will that have any impact on your business? >> no. we are separate business. intel is, of course, the majority shareholder of mobileye, but moibl ebileye is public company acting on its own. our relationship with intel is very important. there's a possibility to have a second source to our chip
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manufacturing, some technologies of imaging radars are coming from intel. so we have a very strong and healthy relationship with intel. >> amnon shashua, bringing luxury driving to the luxury brand within vw. frank, i'll send it back to you. >> phil lebeau, thanks for bringing that interview to us. coming up on "worldwide exchange," the one word every investor needs to know. plus our next guest says what to make with your partnership on dwindling rate cut hopes. check us out on apple, spotify, or other podcast apps. much more "worldwide exchange" coming up after this.
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welcome back to "worldwide exchange." time now for your "worldwide exchange" wrap-up. we start with the white house reaching an agreement with intel. it's part of the c.h.i.p.s. act. combined with intel, it will provide $100 billion worth of manufacturing investments. shares of intel up just over 4.5%. pat gelsinger will have more on this on a first cnbc interview coming up at 9:30 a.m. eastern and again at 4:00. speaking of chips, the u.s. is considering banning the china
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chip. shares of chip poet lay soaring. they announced a 50 for 1 split that gives shareholders 49 additional shares for every one that's currently held. shares up just about 5%. macy's opens its books to suitors. both firms have offered macys $25 a share. that's up from the initial offer of $21 a share. shares of macy's essentially flat right now. jpmorgan boosts its quarterly dividend. they may want to reconsider proposals for tightening capital rules. and nasdaq says boerse dube will sell shares of stock reducing its stock from 10% to 15% making it nasdaq's second largest shareholders.
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here's what to watch. the fed will release its latest monetary policy decision at 2:00 p.m. that's followed by jay powell's chair conference at 2:30. ahead of that decision and the powell press conference, let's get a quick check on futures. futures have been under a bit of pressure. dow would open 50 points lower and also the s&p and nasdaq. joining me now is mimi dodd. >> thanks for having me. >> give me a sense. how do you see today shaping up, of course, with the big news later today, the rate decision out today. >> yeah, i would expect the statement to be very much in line with some of the recent commentary of the fed and will probably -- we are going to get the new summary of economic
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projections. i'd expect those to be more of a mark-to-market and continue to pencil in this calendar year, but i would pay more attention to the conference. >> your w.e.x. word of the day is fed. that makes sense to anybody watching right now. i want to get back to the fed decision and the path forward. you say it's very binary. it's kind of nuanced. but you say it's a very binary situation right now. >> that's right. we're looking to play for a range of outcomes. we've seen more in terms of sticky inflation, wage pressures continuing. the employment picture is coming into balance, but probably a little slower than the fed would like. so we either see that scenario where the fed -- it possibly pushes back fed hikes, and we potentially could get zero or one or two fed hikes this year,
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or we see a considerable potential for considerable weakening in the economy as rates right now are restrictive. the longer they stay here, there are many segments of the economy that don't work out so well. for instance, like commercial real estate. >> i want to clarify. you say zero, one , two, or thre h hikes. you meant cuts. >> i did say cuts. thank you for paying attention this morning. >> your job is to look for opportunities in the market. i know you're not giving us a stock pick, but you're giving us a sector pick. your pick is infrastructure. i want to ask you. why infrastructure and why right now. in your mind is infrastructure impacted by the fed decision and cuts? >> yeah. we think it can affect the broader markets. it fortifies the inflation reduction act and many other
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segments, and that's -- we don't think that it is dependent upon rate stabilization or rates coming down per se, we do think there's broad support for the sector. >> by the way, we're showing the audience. these are not your picks, but a bunch of ways to play infrastructure. material sector is one way to play it. other etfs as well. so right now, of course, again, we're waiting for this decision in a higher for longer. you say some parts of the economy are going to be hurt by higher for longer. i want to talk to you about the consumer. as we see these rate cuts psh back more, how does that impact consumer discretionary and consumer staples? >> yeah. i think consumer has gotten used to these higher rates, but at this point, savings have been drawn down. so the longer we stay here, we do think they will be a drag on the consumer over time.
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we do have the resumption of the student loan payments that occurred last fall. so it's more of a matter of just, you know, higher for long, it will be a drag. it's going to affect mobility and housing, for instance. looking forward, it will affect those things. >> all right. mimi duff, we've got to leave it there. i know you're also bull usual on fixed income. before we let you go, a look at futures ahead of the big decision. the s&p did close at a high yesterday. we're going to leave it there. "squawk box" coming up next. - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?
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good morning. it's fed decision day. we'll get comments. big money for intel. the chipmaker getting the billions from the c.h.i.p. act. n new details straight ahead. and the united states isn't as happy as it used to be, not the unconditiontry itself, but t the people who live there.
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but one nordic country keeps the streak alive. somehow they're convincing themselves they like living in the dark. it's wednesday, march 20th, 2024. it's international happiness day. i'm happy as a clam. so is becky. "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ can i explain? good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" right here on c nbc. we're live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm beck request quick along with joe kernen. andrew is out today. it is international happiness day, and how appropriate because it's also fed decision day. what could be better. rates are expected to remain unchanged, but it will be all about the language and the statements at the powell press conference where the markets will be looking for any clue on the next move for terest

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