welcome to "power lunch" alongside kelly evans. i'm dominic chu. coming up on the show, stocks are higher today but in a couple of days from closing the books on a bad september, does will boil down people are investing in bonds and even gold instead of stocks? we will discuss that topic. plus, the autoworkers could expand their strikes tomorrow as the issue grows even more polarized and politicized. how much longer could this go and how bad could it get? dom, first let's get a check of to the market. hey, you are supposed to be doing this normally. >> i think you got this. >> i will do my best impression. dow is up 73 points right now, 150 points below session highs. s&p is up 20 to 4295. nasdaq is up three-quarters of a percent today. bond yields backed off the

highs. as dom mentioned, a couple of days left in the trading mark. the s&p is down 4.5 and the nasdaq down almost 6%. it has come as the flip side of higher yields. the ten-year yield closing level on august 31st was just 409 as you can see over here. we jumped more than 55 basis points in a month at 462 latest check this hour. let's bring in rick san tetelli from chicago with more. rick. >> i tell you, if i had to make a prediction -- folks, this is just my opinion -- but i would say i have a cycle interim top showing up technically. so today and tomorrow are very key days if you are watching the treasury fixed income markets. i would look for a little bit of buying to start reversing some of the moves. let's get to the month to date. as kelly was saying, look at the month to date, up over 50 basis points at current levels. what is interesting is if you

add in two-year and 30-year, well, 30-year is up 53 basis points month to date at current levels. i have talked at great length about how long ma territories have taken the heavy lifting and are leading the rates in this last big move for august. but you see two-year there, up only 23 basis point at current level. so it is up half speed with the longer maturities, and it isn't just us. think about europe in general. think about all of the countries that are dealing with inflation. it is a global issue, so let's look at two-year notes bill griffetg for the u.s., the uk and the eu on the same chart. you will see what i'm talking about. let's do long maturity in form of a ten-year. the same dynamic going on. this is important because central bankers are all fighting a similar war, and my guess is that you will not see one country have a widely different

inflation outlook, just subtle. so we want to monitor all of these moves. finally, the big beneficiary to big month of august rates was the dollar index, up nearly 3%. kelly, dom, back to you. >> thank you, rick. a great recap. for years the stock market mantra has been known as tina. there is no alternative. bonds and cash were pretty much at zero but not anymore. this year has given way instead to the so-called t bill and chile proech, and even gold is regaining its luster. dom, are you listening? >> i am. >> have you seen this, selling gold bars. >> 19 hunter biden and sell eveselling out quick. they don't have a lot of them. are these alternatives behind the september swoon in stock? let's ask rachel aiken, senior investment officer at cape cod wealth management. peter bookbar, a cnbc contributor. our own bob pisani. welcome to all of you. peter, i will start with you because i think you summarize it

best when you say it is just the sovereign debt bubble popping. do you think that will keep people seeking alternatives for sometime? >> i do. and the bubble peeked when we had $18 trillion of negative yielding securities in europe and japan. so this unwind is a global phenomenon and, yes, i think a lot of people are trying tofind other things to sort of hide out in. what is most empressing about gold interesting about gold is how well it has traded in a short period of time. >> i guess the question to ask as a quick follow up, peter, to that is, you know, at some point do people say, okay, well, i have my exposure now to bonds, i have my ek poxposure to gold an there is really still no other alternative? >> well, the interesting thing about gold is that the demand is not just from industries.

we have seen a voracious appetite on the part of central banks in wanting to own gold as part of their reserves. when the u.s. and the eu decided to sort of confiscate or at least freeze half of russia's central bank reserves when they invaded ukraine, it was a wake-up call to a lot of other central banks to say, hey, maybe we are safer owning gold in our own vaults. i think that central bank bid has been enormous and i think it is one thing helping to keep gold. now, that's not necessarily their investment decision, but it is their desire to own things other than u.s. dollars. >> rachel, i want -- it is dom here. i wonder if you take a look at the way things are setting up, we have gone through such a long period of time with those t.i.n.a. trades, there isn't an alternative, 0% interest rates, as soon as you see interest rates on a four or five handle, that has to seem attractive to some folks even if they feel

anxious about the sovereign debt market. can the equity markets participate to the upside in a rising rate environment? >> hey, dom. thank you. i agree that, you know, seeing a four handle on any ten-year is really an attractive opportunity we feel for clients. especially it wasn't that long ago, less than 18 months or so, that we were seeing less than 1%. with that backdrop, there's definitely competition for dollars from the equity market, especially for investors who are recessing nervous tolerance and who now have 5%, 6% for return for entering the hurdle on the market. on the short-term interests abound, not only on interest rates but oil in the environment we are in, but longer term the market can and has been able to do quite well in an environment where a ten-year has been in that 4%, 4.5% range.

it is just a digestion or should i say the indi jgestion that th market is feeling right now with the jump in september. >> bob, with the deficit as bad as it is and the debt situation as bad as it is, as people shine more light on that do you think they will get more concerned about how we resolve it? >> yes, for sure. i will tell you what worries me. gold doesn't worry me particularly. the biggest determinant of gold is jewelry and jewelry demand is china and india. those consumers determine the price of gold. when china demand waned last year, gold fell apart. the dollar was strong at the same time so it was a disaster for gold. what i'm worried about is the competition with bond. gold inflows have been modest. bond inflows short term, big this year, really big. i will be talking about this on "etf edge" on monday. we now have bonds, a serious competition for stocks for the first time in decades. bond yields are positive on a real basis.

we have older investors like my age, the baby boomers, they're sitting on decades of gains in stocks. many of them do not see the risk/reward for stocks as being particularly high with bond yields positive on a real basis, on an inflation-adjusted basis. this i think is a really massive change and it is going to be a real problem for stocks, competition for dollars for the next few years. i think this is a major issue, not gold. it is bonds. >> rachel, amid that market backdrop, if there were hypothetically a shopping list to put together for stocks that you think could be attractive, hold up well amidst that backdrop, what kind of industries, what would they be? >> yes. so i think, you know, one of the things that we're seeing with higher rates is if they stay this high for long what type of stocks will be able to do well in the face of economic weakness. so there we are really looking for cash flow positive companies, a lot of free cash

flow, double-digit revenue growth in earnings. and in that space we have companies that we think are relatively recession resistant that you are looking at today, especially a company like visa where we were fortunate when the s&p did their reconstitution and put visa and mastercard out of tech into financials to give us an anchor in financials that didn't have credit or interest rate exposure per se, and really some limited downside even though they are very visible to the consumer with other avenues in growth with their other services including tokenization, security as well as consulting. also along those lines, a company like lockheed martin, feeling some headwinds right now from what has gone on with the government shutdown, with the budget deal earlier this year as well as some intrinsic issues with deliveries, but it is a company that is agnostic to the economic cycle. we like that recession

resistance and the clear visibility for cash flows and revenues moving forward for a long time. >> all right. so, peter, put a pin, a button on all of this for us. >> well, to talk about gold as a buy, over the past two years -- and gold is very sensitive to real rates in addition to movements in the dollar. real rates have risen 450 basis points over the past two years and gold is higher in that environment. that says a lot about the tremendous demand forgold. it is not really in the u.s. it is happening outside the u.s. you can be sure in higher prices there will be much more u.s. demand for gold at some point. >> all right. peter boockvar, thank you very much. rachel aiken, and, of course, our own bob pisani. thank you guys very much for a fascinating conversation there. coming up on the show though, we've got the latest on the uaw strike as workers are getting set to walk off the job at even more plants, but

automakers stocks are all higher right now as you can see there. a couple of interesting stories in today's "power check." albemarle leading to the upside. yesterday announcing a new partnership with caterpillar. it willuse cat's battery-powered equipment for a new lithium mine and in return their lithium will be used in caterpillar's batteries. the press release says volume weakness tied to affordability challenges in carmax's words. people bought fewer cars because they're very expensive. "power lunch will " will be bacr this. "the bond report" is brought to you by pimco, the global leader in fixed income. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized...

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. welcome back. lots of talk in the markets today about the status of the uaw strike. let's go to phil lebeau for the latest this hour. phil, what do we know? >> kelly, a couple of things. let's talk first off with what may have moved the stocks earlier today. it was a report from bloomberg saying that the uaw may be aiming for at least a 30% increase in pay plus cost of living adjustments through the life of this contract. the reason this gets attention was didn't people originally say 40%? that headline was they would age for 30% wage and cola pay hike. we reached out to the uaw repeatedly throughout the day. at this point the union said it

declines to comment on the bloomberg story. meanwhile, a lot of people will be focused on what happens tomorrow morning. that's the next time we will hear publicly from shawn fain, president of the uaw. he will give us an update on negotiations at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. he says if there's no progress we could see more strikes. could see more strikes. the walk-outs, if they're at one automakers, two automakers, three automakers, if there are new ones those new strikes would start at 12:00 p.m. eastern time. i want to clarify something for a lot of people. yes, it is a nationwide strike that is impacting all three of the automakers, but it is limited to a certain extent here. we are talking about just 12% of the big three uaw members who are on strike. as you take a look at shares of gm, ford and stellantis, one reason the stocks haven't moved a lot since the stocks began is three of the 26 final assembly plants in the country have workers who have gone on strike. let me say it again.

3 of the 26. the reason i bring this up, the impact, while it is significant, especially at those plants where the workers are out on the picket line and they're not getting a paycheck, they're taking a strike fund payment of $500 a week, that's not to diminish what is happening at those plants. but the overall production remains largely intact for the big three here in the united states and just 3 of the 26 plants have been hit by strikes so far. so we'll get an update tomorrow morning, guys, from shun feign. shawn fain and see whether they call for more strikes. >> phil lebeau, thank you very much. as the autoworker strikes intensify, our next guest says what we are seeing is an entire generation just rising up angry. let's bring in bill sokel, a labor lawyer representing unions in labor relations with their employers and members. bill, we are seeing work stoppages, strikes across all different industries. the uaw is front and center right now but we just resolved parts of one affecting hollywood and we have health care ones in

the offing. is this a new paradigm in terms of labor in their relations with the companies? >> absolutely. i think what is happening here is an entire generation, the younger generation is rising up very angry because they found out during covid they're the essential workers and yet they're told you have to work for $18 an hour to build cars. so this has happened not just for the uaw but as you pointed out there's amazon, there's starbucks, there's u.p.s. we now have health care workers who might go out on strike. we have the culinary workers in vegas who may go out on strike. we have the hollywood strike that's been half resolved. these are younger workers who are saying, look, there's tremendous corporate greed out there that is denying us the american dream. we have the right if we work hard, you know, to own a home, have a car, go on vacation, send our kids to college. companies like the automakers, they make -- the industry makes $20 billion to $30 billion every

year since 2015. they have ceos who make $20 million to $30 million a year and poor mouth $18 younger workers saying, sorry, we can't afford to pay you more. that doesn't cut it with the younger generation. this the late iteration. i think it is going to keep on spreading. we are in for me what is a very exciting historical moment. something has happened that hasn't happened, you know, in the four decades i have been a labor lawyer. >> speaking of four decades, even more in terms of labor law, bill, union membership as a percentage of the working population in this country has been on a very steady decline over the course of the last 50, 60, 70 years in america. there's probably a reason why for that and there's probably a reason why now it is starting to boil over, but is this enough in essence to change that trend? do you think that there will be more union participation because of this or are we just going to put a blip in the road and continue that downturn after these current issues get

resolved? >> that's the giant question. none of us truly know the answer. from my point of view i think this is just beginning. i think there's a new wave here, and it really is about generations that are being denied what they feel is a fair wage and a decent living. when you tell young people that you can't own a home and you can't send your kids to college, you can't have a decent pension, we can't even give you decent health care, i don't think that's somehow going to just go away. we can take lordstown, ohio as a great example. they had a giant gm plant that was going to shut down, trump came down and said, we're going to take care of this, keep building trucks, and a year later they shut the plant down. a piece of it is making electric tractors for farmers, that's steadily growing. a couple miles down the road a giant battery plant the uaw has organized and there will be young workers there making a

very decent living. so i think because the uaw is organizing, i think we are seeing the beginning of something very big. >> although, bill, i wonder if the focus is a little myopic because looming in the background is the transition to evs where china, especially byd, is doing them a lot more anymorably at lower cost. if they ever come into the u.s. market, and they will try, they will hold our leverage over their market as a bargaining chip, i don't know how the big three could ever compete, even with tesla. tesla can pay less because it can offer stock options. who wants stock options at gm? >> let's flip it on its head. assume forsake of discussion that no political party is going to commit suicide by not keeping the chinese cars out. i don't think it is a real threat. >> still, what if the chinese come and say, gm can't sell into our market. that would zdevastate gm. >> that will leave gm with latin america, south america, southeast asia. will we work it out with china?

we may or may not but i don't think we will see our car industry destroyed by the chinese car accident. to the contrary, what we saw happen with tesla is what it is about. elon musk ate the lunch, unfortunately, of the big free. he came out to of all places fremont, california. b buys an old used general motors plant and retools it and it now makes more electric vehicles than any other plant in america. before he was there on gm there were 10,000 workers there. today there are 10,000 nonunion workers there. what happens there? if the automakers have good sense they give a good contract to the uaw, settle it the way u.p.s. did, a win/win situation and that's what uaw needs to take to tesla and say, see, this is what happens if you work for the union. if they are smart they will give a good contract to compete with tesla. >> bill sokol, we appreciate

your thoughts. >> the chat of the times. that was great. >> by the way, my first college internship was at that new united motors manufacturing pta facility that is now tesla. it was joint between prism and gm. i used to work there. the nbc's 13th annual "delivering alpha" segment is under way in new york city. we will get a highlight on the key issues next. don't met the annual advisor summit on october 12th. we will convene top market analysts to help their clients reach success. "power lunch" will be right back.

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including nonsurgical treatments. nike quarterly numbers, after the bell. could one of the year's worst performers surprise the street? insights and anal advertise on "closing bell" at 4:00 eastern. cnbc's "delivering alpha" is taking place right now in new york city, right here, today. some of the biggest names in business are sharing investing insights and joining us is leslie picker, live from the conference just across the river in new york city. leslie, what can you tell us

about thematically, what the big ideas are? >> yeah. so a.i., no surprise, dom, very much in focus. altimeter's brad kersner on the stage sharing interesting comments about a.i. obviously he is a big tech investor. he said, quote, openai at $90 billion, referring to the recent reported valuation there, may be ahead of itself but it doesn't mean that a.i. itself isn't going to be profound. >> i've lived through a few bubbles. we like to describe these moments as super cycles, right, the internet, mobile, cloud computing, and now a.i. they're the start of these things that are going to be profoundly impactful in our lives, but at those moments you can also have over hype and over price. so as an investor or a builder, you have to get comfortable with two simultaneous but competing truths. on the one hand, we probably

over estimate in the very short term which leads to price inflation, the impact that these things will have. but much like the internet in '98 and '99 where there was overpricing in the short run we traumatically underestimated the impact it would have over the preceding decade. >> gerstner is currently talking about the tech sell-off last year and how to move forward from that. so we'll bring you the highlights as they come. if you are looking for even more tech investing content, later this afternoon i will be sitting down with softbank's lydia jett in about an hour or so for a fireside chat. guys. >> great stuff, leslie. thank you so much for bringing that to us. leslie picker, as the day continues over at "delivering alpha." now that the summer's driving season is over the energy market can focus on the winter heating season. at 59 degrees here it feels like fall. pippa stevens joins us with more. >> next week is october. >> hard to believe, by the way. >> i know.

it is almost christmas. that means that the winter heating season is going to start. nat gas prices are creeping back up towards that $3 premiere btu level. they are significantly below where they were last year, however, there's not a lot of relief for consumers coming. so according to the national energy assistance director's association, they said that if your heat with gas, if your bill last year was around $790, this year it will be $730. so only a savings of about $60. >> by the way, that $790 is not an average, is it? >> yes, that is an average across the country. >> for the winter. >> for the winter season, right. >> no, no, for the entire season. >> still, it is a big figure. >> it is like keeping your house at 90 degrees. >> we are talking from october to april. the reason we're not going see this huge -- a lot depends here on weather, of course, it always comes back to weather, but it is because utilities want to protect consumers so they don't pass along the cost at once.

last year nat gas was above $10 and we're still working through that because they're not allowed to jump it on consumers all at once. if you heat with heating oil, it is a smaller portion of americans, but there, you know, you probably will see your costs go up about 8% because, once again, that is the middle where we are seeing supply shortages. >> anything to add about oil, which just remains -- didn't you say we touched another high earlier today before we pulled back? >> we did, back to i want to say august of 2022's level. >> it is overbought at this point so i'm not surprised seeing the momentum. nothing fundamentally has changed in the last month and we are seeing as you talked about the inventory levels drop. but i think there's a lot of money chasing it now so i think it is natural we see a bit of a pull back, but we are close to $100. still the best quarter since last year, since q1 of 2022 when russia invades ukraine and we

saw it spike above $130. >> a big wealth transfer basically taking it from speculators getting it and taking it out of the pockets of consumers who have less buying power before the buying season. >> you have to buy the etf but you don't want to when it is 92 or something. >> unless you are hedging. >> exactly. >> pippa stevens, thank you very much. l atell right. let's get over to seema mody. >> here is an update. fast food workers in california are getting a raise. governor newsom signed a new law guaranteeing $20 an hour when it takes effect april 1. according to the university of california it will be among the highest minimum wages in america. the pentagon awarded spacex the first contract for the starshield network the company is developing, a military version of the starlink satellite internet service. a spokesperson for the u.s.-based service confirming spacex was given a one-year contract earlier this month. a 16-year-old boy arrested

today for deliberately cutting down an iconic british tree. authorities say the tree at sycamore gap which you might recognize from the 1991 kevin costner hit film "robin hood: prince of thieves" was destroyed overnight. it has been a prominent feature n for the past 200 years along hadrian's wall. >> thank you for that update. next on our powerhouse road trip. yes, there's the rv. yesterday we got the low down on the dallas market. today we are heading out to the desert. albuquerque, new mexico, we will get a live report from the scene of "breaking bad" when "power lunch" returns after this break.

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welcome back to "power lunch." it is day four now of our powerhouse road trip where we get an in-depth look at what is happening in different housing markets across the country, including just how far a $1 million budget goes. yesterday we were in dallas, texas. today we areba albuquerque, new mexico. just 41% of houses are selling above the list price. here to tell us more is tracie

venturi, owner of the venturi realty group of real brokers. welcome to the show. >> thank you, kelly. happy to be here. >> you look like you have a podcast setup there. am i right? >> yeah, for sure. >> multi-media. a lot of the realtors are very multi-media. we had a youtube showing yesterday. tell us aboutal albuquerque and what is happening with home prices there lately. >> it is still a seller's market here. unlike yesterday in dallas where you said it was a buyer's market, we are a seller's market. home supply is low, demand is still there. not as great as it used to be but we still have plenty of buyers for what is on the market. you know, buyers are having a hard time with interest rates and some of them are on the sidelines. >> buyers are having a hard time with interest rates, some are on the sidelines. we heard yesterday in dallas more creative efforts to try to

make the homes affordable, maybe bringing price down a little bit. there were other types of things like mortgage buy-ins. are you guys seeing any of that? >> we are not seeing any of the type of things mentioned on yesterday's show. what we are seeing is builders perhaps in new construction, they've changed their floor plans to be a little bit smaller, maybe more affordable. they're offering more incentives on new construction. the buyers are still being fairly picky on what they want in a home. they really want move-in and sellers really want to not give concessions because we're still in a seller's market here. >> real estate, of course, we always talk about being local, tracy. if you look at what is driving the demand dynamic, supply dynamic in albuquerque specifically, is it something economic, is it something business related, workplace related, socioeconomic related, lifestyle related? what is driving it? >> mexico is beautiful for sure.

we call it the land of enchantment for a reason. you know, we have great economic development here for sure, some great employers, and bringing a lot of great businesses in. i think a lot of our home sales are people who are arin new mexico. they've been here, are moving around or first-time home buyers and things like that. >> a lot of your people, the top metro people come from albuquerque from los angeles, san francisco, seattle, austin and el paso. when you show us this million dollar house i think we will understand why. i thought it was interesting, new mexico is a nondisclosure state so the sales price is not public. we are just estimating about a million dollars. tell us about this listing. >> sure. this is a really special property. you can see it has great southwest touches. it is unique because it is about 20 minutes to the international airport, but it is in what we call the village of corrales which is adjoining albuquerque. this property is on 2 1/2 acres with a pond, views to the

mountains, very near the rio grande river and a lot of custom features you would see in a southwest house like the hand trou trowelled walls. rural yet here in the city. >> tracy, where are you seeing the most influx from people out of the state coming from? is it places like on the coast in california, oregon, washington state? or is it out from the east coast and new york? is it from the southwest? where are people coming there from? >> we have a variety. we have a really active air force base here so a lot of the people that are coming here are people that have been on this base before and loved new mexico and come back. but otherwise we have a lot from the new york metro, new jersey area, and then the west coast, california is probably one of the prime, and some from phoenix. >> tracyy, thanks so much for joining us to give us a peek at just how far your money can go

in albuquerque. we appreciate it. >> absolutely. >> and tomorrow, speaking of areas with big military presence, we wrap up our road trip with san jose. no, i'm thinking of san diego. >> you are. san jose, there's some military around the bay area but not a huge. >> we'll find out more when the rv heads west agency our powerhouse road trip continues. heading to break, cnbc is celebrating hispanic heritage, sharing the stories of influential business leaders. here is the chief strategy officer at at point. >> it is really important to know that advantages will not always be given to you. you need to creature own. find ways to stand out in the room. i still feel like a minority in the conversation, but it is important that you also rely on mentorship. surrounding yourself with people that really help you reflect on what you are doing is critical,

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openai, the startup behind chatgpt, is reportedly looking to raise new funds at an 80 to $90 billion valuation. that's roughly triple its level from just a few months ago. a sign of just how much artificial intelligence is boosting the private market overall. deirdre bosa digs into that for today's tech check. the numbers are just staggering and i would day s daresay some would say bubbleicious. >> there are huge risks and trade-offs, especially with treasury yields offer an attractive and safer place to get a return. the valuation may tell us that the disconnect in public and private markets is getting wider, not narrowing as some

believed it has. big tech has lost 13% of the value, amazon and apple 10% each. but a $90 billion valuation for openai would make it many, many times more expensive than any of them on a valuation-to-sales multiple. now, if openai brings in a billion dollars in revenue this year, investors would be paying $90 for each dollar of revenue generated. that makes openai more expensive by this metric than even nvidia whose valuation of sales clocks in at 19 times. even microsoft which owns 49% of openai is at a mere ten times. so for openai to justify that lofty multiple a lot has to go right. certainly it is putting out some of the most generative a.i. applications, but monetizing it will be a different proposition. that has been difficult for even the biggest tech companies. guys, i know leslie picker was just on talking about brad gerstner's panel at "delivering alpha" and even he, someone who

invests in tech companies, thinks this potentially $90 billion valuation seems a little rich. when we put it in this context you can see why. >> although you said a billion in sales, right? that's pretty impressive for a company we never heard of six months ago. deirdre, question for you. as i understand it, openai can now browse the internet so it is not pulling from its pre-2021 database. do you now how it works because it would seem to raise problems with intellectual property and so forth? >> that's the question. that's the debate between openai models if it prowls the internet it does raise privacy and security concerns but update it against google. it keeps adding on these features. one is bringing it more up to date. i believe it is september of 2023. so you get more current results but it is doing interesting, innovative things just released in the last week like its enterprise and the paid model can now respond to verbal and image searches. it does lead us back to this

question, you know, is this ultimately going to be a replacement for google search. i don't know about that, but it is certainly releasing more features faster than at google. probably the technology as well. it opens up a big debate as well, you know, who is in the race for generative a.i., who is leading. >> and what kinds of models, the mega modelled or more tailored, not quite so fancy ones different people use. thank you. for now we appreciate it very much. deirdre bosa with the latest. still to come, properties, parts and produce. we will get you the latest on a fresh "three stock lunch." we are back in two. more and mors move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network.

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♪ ♪ welcome back. more breaking news on the uaw strike. let's get straight to phil lebeau. phil, what is happening? >> kelly, a source with the uaw says that the union has submitted a counterproposal to stellantis. we don't know details of that counterproposal, but this is where we are in these negotiations, where it is proposal, several days to go back and forth on that, and now there's a counterproposal from stellantis. two issues are front and center,

separate from the wage increase or potential wage increase. these are with stellantis. one is the fate of the plant that is just outside of rockford, illinois, final assembly plant idle since february. second of all, what happens with a number of parts and distribution centers around the closing so that they can create larger distribution centers. what happens with the people who are at those plants. we talked to shawn fain about that when we were outside of detroit last week. and he said this is not fair to these people, they don't want to be moved to another location where they might open up a larger distribution center. so those are two separate issues within any proposal and counterproposal between stellantis and uaw. and again, uaw has submitted a counterproposal to stellantis. we'll let you know if we hear anything. >> thank you for the update. time for today's three stock launch. we're looking at stocks in

sectors at or all near oversold levels based upon their rsi or momentum indicator. relative strength index. first up is simon property group, it falls under the real estate sector which is down about 8% overall this month. so here with our trades is david trainer from new constructs. real estate has been a hot topic given interest rates. what about commercial side of things? >> yeah, simon property is one of those great companies but not so good a stock. i think that they have one of the best portfolios in the business of all the malls out there, they are usually the owner of the ones that are still doing really well. but the valuation has gotten ahead of itself. we think given the outlook in general, the stock is a little too expensive. we liked it a while ago. i even added my own personal portfolio, but i think it is time to let it go and look for bigger fish. >> i can't let it go, david, for a second. one of the rules of thumb of investing is you own the best of

the breed and kind of close your eyes and you will do fine. and you're right, assimon propey is best of breed. if you close your eyes five, ten year, do you think that it will outperform? why does it keep not shining? >> i think that the economics of the real estate sector are probably a little bit less attractive now than they have been in the past. and i think it will be that way in the future. and so i don't know that we live anymore in a day where we can close our eyes and invest in any way. because valuations run up to extreme levels and i think it is smart to take profits when valuation get way too high. and we just live in a faster pace world where holding periods are way, way down and i think the days of kind of buy it and forget are gone. i think that we have to keep doing our homework on a more regular basis. >> and now the industrial s sector, it has had nice gains. what would you do? >> this is on our focus list

long, paccar. it is trading at a steep discount to its current profits. trading as if its profits will permanently decline by 30%. so you've got the opposite of what you have with the simon property group. with paccar, you have negative growth priced in. in fact permanent profit decline. and fundamentals of this business are strong, profits have grown over long periods of time. we've not seen at 30% decline in profits in paccar's financials so we think that this risk reward here is much more attractive than simon property group and we like it.reward here is much more attractive than simon property group and we like it. >> last up is kroger. what would you do with kroerg as consumer is under pressure but they still have to buy groceries? >> that's right. that is one of the benefits of being in the grocery business. i think kroger has done a good job of expanding the wallet, putting in gas stations. they have been behind on the

digital front in things especially compared to an amazon and others. but they still have some amazing real estate. and they are catching up on the digital side. they still have great pricing power, volume discounting, they are one of the most successful grocers of all-time in the united states. they have been able to grow successfully. and this stock is trading at a super discount too, trading as if its current profits will decline by 40% permanently. so we like the risk/reward here. we think kroger is a good addition to people's portfolios. >> david trainer, thank you very much. we'll see you soon. two out of three ain't bad. robinhood's co-founder and ceo will join us live tomorrow. we'll ask him about retail investor credit cards and so much more at 20 m.:3p. we'll be right back. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper

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what did i do to get here? (city ambient noise) right. work. you worked hard and it's time for a bank that'll work hard for you. everbank brings security and a guarantee. that you'll earn a yield in the top 5% of competitive accounts. going, got you where you want to be. we're the partners for your next move. everbank. advantage, you welcome back. just three minutes left. let's get to you a couple more stories you need to know about starting with delta ceo saying the airline went too far and that previously announced overhaul of the loyalty program which really scaled things back in the coming weeks and customer backlash has been fierce. changes originally made it harder to reach elite flyer status as many of those programs are becoming oversubscribed. >> have you been to an airport lounge lately?

i'm not frequently, but they are packed. used to be that they are elite lounl lounges and now you can't find a seat sometimes. >> they should just give more people the offering. >> and what is curious, when the story first broke, they said whoever did this first would be a trendsetter. but you wonder how many of these airlines are going to follow suit having seen what just happened with dailyelta. there will soon be no pandas in any u.s. zoo. china's government has the right to any panda anywhere in the world. the national zoo in washington, d.c. has been paying about a million dollars a year and now china is requesting to have them back along with other zoos. i didn't realize that there was this national ownership of these animals across the world. >> this was announced a while

ago, but the fact that it is now happening will really make it front and center for people especially next summer who show up and there is no panda to see. one of the few forms of soft power that china has and this shows that they are willing to wield it. >> i think pandas are great. i would love to see pandas in zoo. >> we can be pro panda, but they recognize that bias and they are using it. taylor swift business keeps coming. we know that she was watching travis kelce. >> they have a relationship, but we don't know what it is. >> pictures were posted to social media, one eagle eyed fan account noticed food on a plate nearby and noticed that she was eating chicken with ketchup and seemingly ranch. >> and so heinz capitalizing posting limited edition bottles of ketchup and seemingly ranch dressing. heinz has had the product for

several years but called it kranch and now giving it a new name. i can't wait to see what she's eating watching the next game. >> the new york "post" had her on the front because they have nothing else to talk about, biggest thing in sports is the fact that she's coming to watch this weekend. >> "power lunch" starts right now. welcome to closing bell. i'm carl quintanilla. scott wapner will join us shortly with rick r ied er. we'll get his take on inflation and how to play the bond market. but this make or break hour begins with stocks making another attempt to bounce after yesterday's late day come back i go on. tech holding pretty strong. communication services, materials leading the s&p higher. although off the intra day highs. which brings to our talk of the tape. rising oil, negative sentiment, can stocks brush off the sluggish september and