capital gain, lucid down 18% you can see the stock very weak. del deliveries, production coming in well under what analysts estimated. jim cramer looking at how much cash they have left and how long it will last them. let's get over to carl and sara on the new york stock exchange floor. >> good thursday morning i'm carl quintanilla with sara eisen live on the floor of the new york stock exchange. jpmorgan's chief economist, we'll get his first take on gdp and jobless claims and the questions many investors are asking, where have all the doves gone we also have china's beige book ceo, leland miller on this year's head fake for china's growth that's what he's calling it, even though alibaba shares are up on blowout results. ceo mark fields, tough week for evs, lucid crumbling, tesla

is lower on the week earnings reaction from nikola. stock losing momentum in the last few minutes s&p flirting with the 4,000 level. we were higher earlier we lost a lot of the gains up 0.2 on the s&p. nasdaq was up on nvidia and ai enthusiasm let's bring in mike santoli. turn in the markets this morning. what happened? >> it's a little test of how much nvidia is really a bellwether and how much is a unique, singular situation i think we got a little of a verdict on that. nvidia right now, its gain is more than the overall gain in the s&p 500, so it shows you the rest of the market we are around these same levels. 5% pullback from the highs of three weeks ago. the other piece is the two-year treasury yield trading more or less at the cycle highs. other yields came in nothing in the revised gdp data

from the fourth quarter, really changed the fed picture. i think we're still contesting with that same set of issues, pinched on both sides between too hot and too cold i don't think it's necessarily a total rethink of what's gone on in the market. could, in fact, show itself to be more of a dip we got this first pullback you can see a real cooloff in retail investor sentiment. >> as we move further and further into the week, has credit proven to be a better tell either up or down >> it softened up a little bit this week. it's coming from very strong levels there is a little sense out there that how much better can it get from here i don't think it's been the main driver but you've absolutely seen it kind of come off this initial flush in the year. massive bond inflows massive issuance of corporate debt and every bit was soaked up. that's a good sign it also shows you that maybe the risk/reward in buyingcorporate debt is not as fresh as it was a

few weeks ago. >> i've been looking at some earnings reactions even the good ones have turned around look at etsy etsy was up sharply last night after reports. it was a really strong quarter revenues -- that's not the etsy. that's the ten-year. >> but it says the same thing. >> it does the interday has fallen 3% it was a good quarter for etsy and guidance came in low on macro economic volatility. you know, if you look at where the consumer is -- first of all, the consumer is spending where is the consumer spending etsy had a really strong holiday season in fact, the cyber five, those five days, especially strong small business saturday, giving tuesday, really strong for etsy. i have some stats. 595% increase in searches on etsy for unique jewelry. 29% increase in searches for dog

charcuterie boards >> i guess that's a thing. >> what does that tell us about the consumer i don't know. >> there's still room for want to have, not need to have, i guess? but some caution in the outlook from etsy. not that it was disastrous but i think ceos in general don't feel there's a lot to gain by being super aggressive and promising a lot for the rest of the year so, i think that contributes to the sense of, things look fine right now. we're not sure where it heads. >> macro economic uncertainty, name of the game. >> even if you do have some positive guidance you want to give, maybe hold it. there's no penalty for holding. >> i found fascinating in december everyone was like, january is when everybody kitchen sinks their guidance and they'll bring people's expectations down. it sort of has happened. i think people were braced for it, to some degree we did -- again, a lot of the valuation work last year the question is where are earnings going to settle out >> let's take a look at this

morning's data jobless claims, once again, with a one handle, 192k 2.7% gdp growth in the quarter core pce coming in hotter, 4.3 annual rate. you put them together and you have even more support for higher for longer fed stance joining us to break it all down, jpmorgan's chief u.s. economist, michael. i know you said the data has had hawkish implications and you did raise your q1 gdp forecast is there a sense that batch of data is going to be softening in the coming months? >> i think january got supported by one-off factors, including bigger social security payments, better weather perhaps some quirks with seasonal adjustment. i wouldn't want to take all the january data and extrapolate that out in coming months. i do think we probably soften a little bit here as we move into the spring that said, i think what you saw in the jobless claims this morning is continued resilience

and the labor market as long as the labor market is holding like that, i think the economy will continue to expand. that's why we've, you know, been marking up certainly current quarter growth but we think over time the economy should slow, given the lagged effects of all these rate hikes but we're not seeing that in a very clear and convincing way in the latest round of data >> a lot of the forecasting charts we've been looking at say on payroll, if you look at the year going out, the january print looks almost comical in retrospect if, in fact, those forecasts come to fruition did the january number do anything to move the overall trend forecast for you >> so, you know, i do think there is some noise -- i'm sorry, some news in the january report so, that is, you know, a consequence. we added another rate hike for our view because of that we do think -- it's -- we don't want to totally throw away a jobs report. that said, i do think it

probably behooves one to smooth through these things and look at them on, say, a three-month average basis, to not get too carried away by one month's number >> i guess the question that needs a smart economist like you to figure out is can you really get a meaningful deceleration in inflation with the jobs market so hot hence, another reading of below 200,000 jobless claims can that happen? >> i guess i agree with most fed officials that you do need to see some better balance in the labor market before you can become more comfortable with the forecast and inflation coming down to answer your question, we do think we need to see a softer labor market to really make sure that inflation is coming down in an enduring manner as you say, we haven't seen that yet. i do think we want to give a little credence here to the idea that monetary policy doesn't affect the economy overnight

it takes time for decisions to be reset to the higher rate environment. that will said, it does seem like we need, perhaps, even higher rates than we've seen to get that sort of reset in the second half of the year. >> my other sort of related question is, can you get a meaningful deceleration in inflation with the s&p 500 at 4,000? powell played down the financial conditions, but they clearly matter if you look, for example, at housing and what's happened with mortgage rates, they spiked up in january and we saw mortgage applications fall off a cliff after some rebound in december >> financial conditions do matter s&p is not the only financial condition, not by a longshot i think the dollar is a very important one, particularly for the manufacturing sector i think the overall level of interest rates matter itself, too. not just how it affects other

financial conditions look, i mean, higher stock prices on a backdrop of, i think your previous segment mentioned all the tax cuts we're seeing. so, consumer balance sheets and income statements are looking pretty good. and i think from the fed's perspective, they don't want to keep supporting that i wouldn't want to focus only on the stock market, but to the extent we do focus, yes. lower would be -- from a disinflationary perspective, better. >> we've been keeping a very close eye on some of the yields on short-term notes. i wonder what role you think fiscal policy and worries about the debt ceiling are playing in that front and what might happen if there's some sort of rapid resolution on that front in washington >> well, i would be very surprised if there's a rapid resolution and i do think that remains the number one downside risk for the economy in the second half of this year. just last week, cbo if you would

forward their best estimate of when that becomes a binding constraint to some time in the third quarter. you know, while we do think the fed is going to be hiking through the spring here, i think as we get into the third quarter, it could be a pretty peril yous time for the economy. your scenario where it's rapidly resolved, great, i'll take that. i'd be very surprised, though, given that, you know, it took 15 votes to get a speaker of the house, to think we'll have a comprehensive fiscal plan done, you know, early in the ball game strikes me as very optimistic. >> always down to the wire the 12-month yield is at the highest level since 2001, whether it's debt ceiling or fed. finally, michael, you know, just stuck on this labor point because everybody's been wrong about it wall street's been wrong, economists have been wrong, the fed's been wrong. >> yeah, no -- >> why is that

>> you know, i think part of it is that the overall state offing a aggregate demand hasn't rolled over as quickly as thought the labor market being strong is saying labor productivity has been unusually weak, which is a different angle to this. one that is not quite -- doesn't carry quite the same tinge of optimism when you think about the longer-run prospects to either corporate profits or nominal income growth more generally and why productivity has been weak, i think, has been a mystery that i can't answer. certainly in 30 seconds or even much longer than that for that matter. >> although, really quick, it does make me wonder if you start pen pieces about ai and how it might change that picture down the road. >> yeah, no, i think there are a lot of pretty amazing technologies out there that could boost productivity in the long run, but we certainly didn't see it in 2022. we'll see what we get going

forward. >> michael, good stuff covered some good ground michael feroli. we're about to get a wave of research reports from economists on what chatgpt means -- >> or disinflation. >> there you go. still to come, alibaba losing early morning gains, much like the rest of the market, and other early winners. something our next guest says could be a head fake. plus a lot more on this move in nvidia and the role ai could play in driving growth. wells fargo pulling back from parts of the u.s. mortgage market hundreds being laid off. the cnbc reporter behind the scoop later this hour. we're just getting started on "squawk on the street" this third hour dow's gone negative, down 30 dow's gone negative, down 30 pointsople.

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take a look at alibaba shares in the red, giving up earlier gains despite delivering a beat despite china's reopening fueling sentiment in the region, our next guest is predicting 2023 will likely be a head fake for growth there joining us is china beige book ceo leland miller. leland, for those that aren't as aware of what you do in the china beige book, describe what you're looking at and why you have such an out of consensus view here. >> well, look, when we surveyed tens of thousands of companies over the course of the year, so we track china growth patterns what we're going to see in 2023

is going to be a cyclical bounceback starting as early as the second quarter so, we are going to see a better 2023 than 2022 firms will start investing consumers will have some measure of revenge spending. you'll have bounceback even on poor numbers so, there will be better chinese growth numbers for two to four quarters starting the second quarter. the problem is it's in the context of a long-term structural slowdown for china. so, we have to be prepared for the idea that what's happening in 2023 isn't a reversion to the pre-covid status quo it is a cyclical bounceback in terms of a structural slowdown behind it. >> i guess, what's driving the longer structural slowdown is it demographics >> it's demographics, it's debt. it's really the -- china's economic growth model for years and years and years was focused, party one, on high levels of

growth so, china would grow organically, say if they put an 8% target out there, they would grow 5.5%, 6%, and then they would stimulate their way up to meeting their growth target each time it works it makes markets happy, the stability, the consistency what it does is rely on enormous amounts of nonperformance investment, infrastructure, et cetera, in order to get the growth targets matched and met every single quarter beijing is moving away from that they see it as a threat to the party, a threat to the system. everything coming out of china is talking about slower growth presumably more healthier growth but much slower growth going forward. that's going to be part of the system 2023, maybe not so much, but going forward, that will be china's growth model going forward. >> i was going to say, some of the more short-term certainly survey work, i know morgan stanley this week did a piece on what they call the worry-free chinese consumer who basically say, we have no concerns about our household finances

they think real private consumption goes up 9% plus. but you're saying, even if that does happen t will be short-lived? >> short i mean, structurally there's been talk for years and years about this structural transition from investment-led economy to consumption-led economy. yes, you've seen less investment but there's been nothing done to structurally incentivize to empower consumers in china you'll have a better quarterly number going forward because you'll come off all these lockdown and draconian covid zero controls. so it will look better in the coming quarters but you're not changing the dynamics of china households are suppressed, private sector is suppressed in order to benefit the state and china's economic model so going forward you have no real change in the forward projection chinese consumption has always been weak and will continue to be weak going forward. >> you know the counterargument. they've got a lot more stimulus levers to pull, monetary and

fiscal they've got trillions of reserves still it's a controlled and managed economy, that they can just turn on if they want, on growth >> true. they've done that for a long time there's been a price to pay with that, and that has been more and more nonproductive investment, more and more debt i think the mindset of beijing from 2021 forward is, we are not going to run off the same stimulus playbook we have in the past we are not going to greet every weak piece of data with the need to stimulate, stimulate, stimulate. they didn't do it in '21 they didn't do it in 2022. there's going to be stimulus in 2023 because property is in such a disaster shape, but that will be stabilized in the sector, ensuring there's cash flow and not wider contagion. will they opt to have large scale policy on top of an organic recovery considering they've been very -- very reluctant to do that i'm skeptical they'll power

through with higher growth numbers when they've already got recovering growth. >> some of us are old enough to remember pre-covid when one of the questions around names like baba is what are their aspirations ex-china how much would they want to move into the north american market but i just can't imagine that that question is as relevant now given the fraying tensions i noticed today tiktok getting banned on work phones of the european commission. would you agree? >> yeah. look, these companies are very attractive in the short term because you're seeing a recovering chinese economy and you're seeing a regulatory crackdown that's clearly being eased up but you still have geopolitical tensions that will deal a blow in their outward expansions. you also have a situation where corporate governance at these firms is at risk because the government at many of the large tech firms is taking golden shares in them in order to steer these towards more party-friendly policies. there's always been the implicit

bargain, if you're in china, that's part of the bargain but because this is becoming explicit, the party is making no pretense of what they're doing right now. they're moving in one direction, and that's a risk to these, you know, going the way shareholders want them to >> so, at a cocktail party, when your buddies ask you, should i buy alibaba trading at ten times next year's earnings you tell them what >> do what you want in the short term but be very careful in the long term. >> leland miller, thank you very much interesting perspective from the china beige book coming up after the break, interesting push and pull on intel today. morgan stanley trying to call a bit of a bottom here, but b of a says not so fast we'll talk about that and break down nvidia a little more as some of the hot takes come in. we're watching bath and body works up about 1.5%. actually, better than that now dan loeb planning to issue a

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got to talk natural gas. we can't ignore the move we've seen got to 196 interday yesterday. prices have fallen by two-thirds since mid-december energy costs, a major driver of inflation. that fallen price has caused drillers to pull back. eq, the largest producer of nat gas in the u.s., says production will remain flat this year after the dramatic run up in the share price the last three years is beginning to fade a bit. last three months, down 25%. take a look at other large natural gas producers as well. chesapeake, eog, devin have been relatively lagging lately. we'll talk to devon's ceo tomorrow in the 11:00 hour >> energy best performing sector right now, up 1%, even though

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welcome back to "squawk on the street." 11:30 on wall street, european markets are closing. actually higher after digesting the u.s. fed minutes they've been weaker all week as well rolls-royce the big mover, with

57% increase in profit new 52-week high for that stock. the story abroad has been cpi. inflation data, revised data, lifting the eurozone core inflation rate to a record high. another tally in the camp of ecb hawks likely cementing a rate hike for next month, 50 basis point, double expected, and bank of england katherine mann says it's too soon to stop raising interest rates it's not just an american problem, the rising inflation and the stubbornly high inflation. for europe it's energy and also food food, double digit inflation and that is what is proving to be very stubborn not just here in the u.s., but in europe as well. you know, one year since the ukraine war started. i was looking at some of the data sunflower oil exports are still down 50% it's going to be hard to get rid of food inflation.

>> just imagine where we would be if nat gas hadn't done what had it done. cheniere is on the tape saying europe will make it through the winter without enforced supply restrictions many had feared expect more volatility if that starts to revert to the upside, you'll compound the food inflation problem. >> exactly so, they've had some relief in warmer weather and what's happened with natural gas. clearly they're still paying more for energy and all their other things and it's putting more pressure on the ecb, like the fed. and that market, they're now pricing a terminal rate at almost 4%, 3.75% it's at 2.5%. >> turkey cut rates. >> not a bell rhetter for anything. >> no, not at all. >> they cut rates amid sky high inflation, which is insane let's take a look at notes grabbing our attention today nvidia has to be one goldman acknowledging they were wrong to stay on the sidelines boosting its price target with ai as one of the main catalyst on the earnings call the ceo

said he thinks over the next ten years, ai will grow by, quote, 1 million x. yesterday we had tell us he's just at bullish. >> i think ai rivals the internet, cloud computing. if you think william gibson had a quote, the future is here just not equally distributed. i think ai will make a huge impact on companies. >> he also said, you know, compared it to the internet and said like technology cycles, it can get overhyped in the near term and overestimated in the long term and doesn't think we're in the overhyped stage he's so big on ai. mike santoli joins us. carl, what was your take on nvidia call? >> there's a great oppenheimer note on microsoft saying, here's a company with $18 billion advertising business, a new partner in netflix, for example, and we're just getting started

what's the longer run given $200 billion? >> nvidia, the way the stock trades as if it has a quasi monopoly leveraged to ai the street caught flat-footed on nvidia way too bullish at the highs, 80% buy ratings. now after the run it's had, people were reluctant to say this makes sense even today the consensus price target is $236, where the stock is right now today nvidia has added two-thirds of intel market cap intel still has double the revenue of nvidia. what's getting capitalized through nvidia through this sky's the limit, open-ended, dare to dream type growth. >> isn't the real surprise not the way in which wong was willing to promote the technology, but calling a bottom in gaming. >> without a doubt saying all the things that were

pressure points are easing up and we can inflect higher. it was brilliant if you look at the year-over-year declines in revenue, we knew it was going to be that way, but it was a way of really spinning it forward in a heroic way now again, we're talking about a stock that goldman upgrades. it's 30-something times the 2025 earnings estimate at this point. >> you're talking about a whole new total adjustable market where they're the only ones playing. >> the main ones and they're gaining market share. >> for ir and pr department on spin, but there might be something to it. >> it makes it treacherous to bet against it. >> you were talking about intel's dividend cut. >> a couple different views. morgan stanley does upgrade to equal weight they think we're close to a valuation floor given what happened with the dividend and the guidance this week then b of a comes out, i love this, we believe structural disadvantage, subscale manufacturing, high exposure to

pcs, cpu share, lost to amd and arm. it's an interesting sell side debate at the moment. >> it really is. it's unusual to have a company that, first of all, got to a 5.5 dividend yield the hard way because the stock went down so much and looks like it's cheap in a valuation floor relative to its recent earnings power. but is still -- it can't just be a cash cow it's in a massive ramp-up in capex and it's somewhat risky in terms of what the payoff will be down the road. it's a tough one to try and play, especially when you have that broader big picture back drop of, it's really hard to be a deep value investor in technology, historically just because it seems as if you have these massive shifts that leave some behind. i think that's the big call on intel. >> the other thing we talked about earlier this morning was whether or not the dividend was a broken promise or whether he did sort of telegraph like, this is clearly part of cash management.

>> i think in recent weeks and months, it was pretty well telegraphed that what -- when the ceo says, we are committed to having a competitive dividend, in my mind that was competitive with the broader market or the industry, in which case their yield was way too high interestingly, was it -- was it morgan stanley saying, you know, we're upgrading it. >> yep. >> to a neutral. but we still think they should have just limited it what's the point >> what's the history of companies cutting dividend and their price action do you have a screamer in your mind >> no, because i don't think there's a rule a lot of them are cutting them because things are truly in a desperate moment others are just kind of normalizing and it's sort of almost like ripping off the band-aid if you're trading at a yield like that, it shows you the market diplomat expect it anyway at&t when it did the spinoff of w warner bros., it radically cut its dividend people knew it was going to happen so it didn't penalize the stock down the road.

>> good way to get into kayla's coverage of chips in washington, d.c. the secretary of commerce will deliver remarks. we've been waiting for these about the future of semispace and the c.h.i.p.s. act sara and i talked yesterday about names like intel becoming necessary national champions if we're going to make this sort of repate reation to work. >> we're expecting secretary mondo to lay out what washington believes the next decade will look like for semiconductor manufacturing. she's going to talk about the manufacturing atrophy and the loss of jobs the semiconductor employment has fallen by a third in the last 20 years. she'll call specifically, we've learned, for the creation of two new chips clusters here in the united states, where they're expecting a fab to be an anchor facility for those clusters. they expect suppliers, research and development and workforce programs to essentially surround

those facilities that companies are going to be building and that's certainly new here. we've heard the administration talk about how they want this field of dreams, they want to build it with the funding and they want companies to come back home and start building those new factiilities. so specifically to hear commerce say they want these two clusters to be formed around the united states is an interesting dynamic but it comes at a difficult cyclical time for the industry, as you were just discussing. >> that's what i'm -- it's like, how do you marry those two things in your mind if you're an investor is this say long-term -- should you be betting long term on companies like intel because they're going to continue to get subsidies and support from the national government because we need them for national security? how do you think the cyclical impact here plays into what you're talking about in washington >> well, there's certainly a national security element to this we've heard the president talk about the fact that javelins being sent to ukraine can't be manufactured in large order to

replenish the stockpile here because they can't get those chips. of course, now we have a glut of chips in this country. but there is a belief within the administration that, perhaps, some of this funding, once it starts to get out the door, that application process opens next week and the money will start flowing later this year, that perhaps that will end or at least smooth out the boom and bust cycle we've seen the semiconductor industry go through to essentially start incentivizing these companies to not lay people off, to maintain certain levels of investment, and to avoid sort of this, you know, rush, rush, rush, produce, produce, produce, then you have an inventory glut and then they have to take some actions we've seen in recent weeks unclear if $50 billion is the ticket to do that for an entire industry but that certainly is the hope >> and the beginning maybe kayla, thank you we'll watch for that speech later this afternoon. after the break, u.s. mortgage rates are now at the highest levels since november. that's impacting some of the big banks. plus, ebay, moderna, bumble

moving on the heels of results bumble staying above 9%. the ceo -- now it's 5% the overall market has fallen. ceo speaking with julia boorstin saying the company has long been using ai to improve their offerings to consumers >> we've actually been using ai and machine learning and data science so deeply in our business for years now so, this is not something we have to hop on the train for this is really just about integrating it further, deeper we're going to be leveraging it for safety initiatives, to, you know, detect heat speech or bad actors quicker, better, more efficiently.

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u.s. mortgage rates jumped to the highest level since november amid concerns about further fed tightening as the value of the u.s. housing market sl shrinks by 2.3 trilli according to redfin. home buyers aren't the only ones feeling the pressure cnbc out with a new piece with wells fargo laying off mortgage bankers this week as they undergo the shift strategy the reporter behind that piece joins us now it's a huge story because it's wells and because it's in mortgages. >> you're right, carl. thanks for that. you know, we're in the painful process of wells fargo, jpmorgan, other big players taking out capacity from the u.s. mortgage industry as you know, mortgages are a

boom and bust industry, more than other parts of finance. when they're hot, you need a lot of human beings, a lot of people to process the mortgages and when the business collapses, as it has in the past year, they need to fire quickly to get rid of a lot of that capacity. and that's certainly what happened on tuesday we reported first that wells fargo just sent out its latest series of job cuts. we know that hundreds and hundreds of jobs of mortgage bankers across the country have been cut unfortunately, when you make the move that's not based on performance, it's based on strategy, as, you know, wells fargo ceo has articulated his strategy to focus mostly on customers and minority communities, you had situations where high performers were cut, people recently recognized and celebrated internally by going to a pretty fancy offsite in

california you know, what happens when they come back? they're laid off >> it's that color, hugh, because they announced this in january, right we knew they were going to be totally switching the strategy on the mortgage business and basically getting rid of it. where do these people go is anybody growing their mortgage business? >> we broke that story last month. where are they going after we wrote that story, the color was, you know, first republic locally, chase, a few others you had -- you have recruiters in this industry swarming some of the top people, looking to place them at other locations, other mortgage outfits the obvious issue, we started out the segment is, there's not demand there's not affordability in the u.s. housing market. there's going to continue to be shrinkages in purchases. wells fargo was down 14% half of that is volume they're

not going to have anymore because they stepped away from corr correspondent banks. >> thank you keep the scoops coming on wells fargo. up next, lucid and stellantis going in opposite directions. netflix, the stock falling hard as the company says it is cutting prices now in more than three dozen countries. down almost 6% overall market at session lows right now, the morning rally has faded and given way to a selloff. down 167 on the dow. this just in from miller tabach, the nasdaq 100 has gone from two to one positive to two to one negative and still falling in less than two hours.

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showing a divergence lucid and nikola showing signs of weaker after both reported weaker than expected revenue nikola delivering own 20 instructions from the quarter and stellantis reported stellar results up 41% and tesla having a great start to the year, shares up 60% so far in 2023 yesterday elon musk and california governor gavin newsom announced a new global engineering headquarters in palo alto ahead of tesla's investor day next week. so what does this mean for the future of evs?

joining us now former ford ceo mark fields, also a cnbc contributor, it's a good week to have you, mark what have you learned from some of these earnings results, especially the smaller player evs that are disappointing >> hi, sara. when you look at the smaller ev players, let's use lucid as an example, i think the script has flipped now where in lucid's case and in some of these other smaller manufacturers of evs it's gone from a production challenge to a demand challenge. if you look at lucid, the product is really good but at the end of the day even though their revenues are up, you know, a significant amount versus last year because they were producing cars this quarter, it is still well off what the street was expecting, so those big revenue misses really kind of auger for issues around demand, you know, they've had to put some incentives what they call credit on some of their vehicles, and their deliveries to production

actually was quite low for the quarter. they only delivered about 55% of the vehicles that they produced. so i think overall it says, you know, for the smaller players, how fast is the market going to grow what's the demand for their vehicles at very high price levels because the market, for example, for lucid at the 85,000 to $150,000 range, that's not a very big market and you have very established players like mercedes and bmw launching products so it's only going to get tougher. >> what happens to these companies? do they get bought >> well, one thing is for sure, these companies will continue to need capital to grow their businesses in the case of lucid, you know, i think they reported about $4.5 billion work of cash on their balance sheet, which was down versus the previous quarter and they had to raise equity in the fourth quarter so i think what you'll see is a lot of these companies are going to have to go back to the

markets or to other investors to continue to get capital to grow their businesses and in some cases these businesses, you know, will move along but they're going to have to prove to investors and the street they can get to sustained profitability. some will succeed but i think some will fail and have to be bought by maybe some of the larger players. >> and, you know, mark, you and i have spoken in recent weeks about sticker shock to some degree as consumers begin to experiment or at least investigate evs. it's not like pricing will be a more fertile environment for some of these players. >> yeah, i mean, you know, when you think about it, an ev costs about 20% to 25% more than an internal combustion engine product and in an economic environment where consumers' budgets are stressed, the key is for these manufacturers producing evs to come out with evs that consumers can afford

and you can get that mass adoption you know, gm is coming out with i alum of products this year in the 30 to $40,000 rank for but for these smaller companies where they're in a very high pricing range, that is a difficult task as you're trying to grow the business and need capex to build facilities and continue to invest in your product. >> so does it mean that tesla is still the rabbit that everybody chases because of their cost advantage, because of the money they save on things like marketing and dealer networks? >> you know, i think tesla is still the benchmark here in the ev market. i think one of their very smart moves they made early on was to go for pretty much almost vertical integration where they can control -- they're the master of their own destiny of costs literally in a lot of the large amounts of value of material that goes into their products when you combine it with their brand which is held in high regard, they were a first mover,

they tend to get a price premium, they continue to be in the lead and we'll see next week when they have their investor day how they'll continue to move the business forward but i think every automaker still benchmarks tesla as the leader at this point. >> it's good to see this world through your eyes, mark, thank you very much for coming on today. >> all right, thanks, guys. >> mark fields. coming up after the break, the case for a higher inflation target the president getting ready to perhaps nominate a fed vice chair who might share those views? we'll see. stocks continue to move lower, dow down 215 discretionary is lagging, back to 3970. don't go away.

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bringing the wall street buzz segment from closing bell to "squawk on the street," the federal reserve vice chair, the next one, brainard departing going to the white house two candidates in the running, ja ja

janice eberly and karen dynan with positions at northwestern and harvard university in terms of what we can expect all of wall street is going back to research papers, some things that took out dimon -- janice eberly said if the fed had a 3% inflation target not a 2% target, the recovery would have been much faster that's dovish. of course, we don't know this is going to go through a senate confirmation and learn a lot more but it's fun to speculate. >> is it, though some get worried when you start talking about this how would other central banks respond? what would the impact be on the dollar >> also credibility. the fed can't be in an inflation fight saying we could handle a higher rate so probably not

likely but wall street can hope. i guess, if you're hoping for the fed to calm down here on interest rate hikes, the move is the opposite and the market has fallen apart again today and lost a pretty decent rally and now at the lows of the day. >> dollar almost getting to 105 on the dollar index. pce will be key. >> consumer sentiment. an updated read all tomorrow very exciting but for now we'll send it to scott and "the halftime report. >> sara, thank you very much i'm scott wapner, front and center this hour what nvidia means to the tech trade after beating earnings the stock is surging is it now the must own name in the nasdaq we will debate that and also minutes away from a very special interview today with jpmorgan's ceo jamie dimon. he always makes market headlines. do not want to miss that coming up joining me jim lavin that will, liz