francine: robin grew was promoted. the high point of a 15 year career. the former barrister entered the world of finance three decades ago and never left. >> the speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me. francine: in this episode of leaders with laqua, i speak with robin about diversity, purpose, and what the future holds in an ever-changing world. robin, thank you so much for joining us on leaders. the world is a bit strange, there are some any poly crises, or whatever you want to call it. it's difficult to get a handle of what comes next. robin: that would be the shortest answer i could ever give. it is difficult. if this year has taught us

anything, it's that their prediction is not our strongest suit, perhaps. that isn't just in relation to markets, it's in relation to these big geopolitical events that we are still living with. francine: it's incredible to think we are in a better place. i feel like every six months there is a doom and gloom crew saying interest rates have gone too much, we need to evaluate what happens next. yet, the economy holds. robin: i think when we talk about it and we have this concession about higher for longer, which i still say out loud, then cross my fingers in some ways that maybe i'm going to be entirely wrong. but higher for longer. i think where the nuances in that messages that, what we are unlikely to see a 0%. we are probably unlikely to see 2%. we may see some 50 basis points adjustments, for sure. but i think what we have been

signaled clearly from central banks is that they are not frightened of using policy to control inflation or two try and respond to inflation. i think that's the messaging we should all kind of get used to. the last 10 years, 0%, free money. next 10 years, higher for longer with that slight nuance in the way that i described. francine: i imagined that 2024 could be difficult because of volatility. so it makes it harder to manage money. robin: i think it does. i think the denomination effect that we saw because of the hiccups in the system with banking crisis and with ldi, that put a premium back into -- into liquidity. the liquidity risk, how do you manage these different economic cycles? and are you prepared or are you ready for a hedging, which means that, let's remember what that means. it means you are going to do well at times and at times you

will not do well with the entirety of your portfolio. that's ok, that managing your portfolio for these different changing economic cycles or behaviors, is what you're supposed to be doing. francine: does it change how you lead man group? robin: it changes because of the way we lead the organization. we are an organization that is diverse, our capabilities are diverse. we have different engines doing different things, be it on the fundamental discretionary side. we have products that are in the macro space, products that are in equities, long earning, long short. but what we are seeing is, our clients are interested in more customized solutions. in solutions that answer the problem they've got or the challenge they have rather then, here's a product, by that or nothing else. so it changes in the way that you deliver an organization. change in the fact that the

value you are driving towards is not just about, here is a product, but it say, here's a solution. francine: what does it mean and how you are focusing your energy? i know you want to be in the private credit space but hiring is something you need to think of carefully. robin: we don't make widgets. what we have our highly talented individuals who are focused on being the very best they can be in the workplace and delivering what they do. that can be with our engines are in our operations or middle office department or in the legal department. it's about a war on talent. hiring the very best people, retaining, keeping those people, giving them opportunity, giving them a space where they could be the very -- very best they can be is incredibly importance. it's tech, its talent, its vision, it's about knowing that when people come to work every day, every single person at man group adds value and is valued. that's important, it's that

moment, if i could have everybody answer the same question, what do you come to work to do every day, the answer to that is, because we are the custodians and responsible for the savings in the pensions of real people, like my mom and dad and your mom and dad, then you do a better job every day. francine: how do you higher? there's a war on talent, there's a battle to get the very best. so what do they want? robin: it depends. i think that's a one size doesn't fit all. who doesn't want to be around really smart people? who doesn't want to be around a place which values your input? who doesn't want to be in a place that doesn't seek to be better today than it was yesterday and better tomorrow than it was today. who doesn't want to be around the place that is actually interested in you as a person and interested in you with being capable of making it better. where do we go? we go broad, we go wide, we look

for difference, we look for energy and excitement. that person who's able to get energized. francine: you don't hear that from a big finance chief executive. is there perception for finance? robin: finance hasn't done as good as a job as we might in explaining the value we bring to society more generally. i don't cure cancer, that's not what i do. i wish i could. i wish i was that smart and capable to do that. but what we do is protect and enrich the savings in the pensions of people. people have worked incredibly hard, all of their lives, and diligently put their money aside in the 401(k) or wherever it may be. and we are entrusted with that and we can give them, if we do our job well, financial security. we can provide -- we can provide something that enables legacy investing, it enables access to

health care, education, to a roof over your head, to pay the bills, to all of those things. that's a pretty important thing to do. francine: you've seem to be filled with a big sense of purpose, which you don't often get from hedge fund managers. robin: i have a big sense of purpose, i have a firm that runs a big sense of purpose. and i think that energy is something we should put to work. when i sit down with big allocators and we talk about what it is we are both trying to do, it's the same. i think the day we forget that in the day that i think about our numbers in the institutional size numbers that we talk about, we lose a bit of that sense of what we are here to do properly. francine: coming up, robin on adapting to change in an uncertain future. robin: i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years are going to be. what we need to do is be flexible, to understand and be dynamic. to think about the impact of

markets and change. ♪ ♪♪ live up to it. the all-new gx. ♪♪

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make more of what's yours. francine: from a new geopolitical risks, interest rates in a different working reality, the world of finance is also adapting to change. i continued the conversation with ben group chief executive, robin greed. do you worry about what the future economic footprint -- footprint looks like? >> our job is to say how do we think about what could happen, how do we stress the portfolio, how do we think about what your outcomes are today and people drying incomes today and drawing pensions 50 years from now. man group is 250 years old. we match the duration of our clients who are thinking about just in terms of a year from now but they are thinking about what they are planning 30 years from now. we are not good at predicting,

i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years are going to be. what we need to do is to be flexible, to understand and be dynamic, to think about the impacts of markets and changes. francine: are you worried about geopolitics or market function? clicks the factory of change geopolitics to geoeconomics is something of an impact. so, if we think about what happened when russia invaded ukraine and the impact on our fossil fuel pricing rethink about the worries and concerns around supply chain's post-covid, and the fact that you think about corporate real estate, and the refinancing is inevitable. it's not a 30 year mortgage. these are things coming up for refinance in the next 3, 4, five years. this is an environment where you look across the city, office buildings are in a different

place and have a different level of occupancy. these are changes in geoeconomics are things we have to take into consideration. francine: do have a ranking or is it just this huge transformation of change? >> i think it's a huge transformation of change. i don't think it's a short-term thing, i think it's a real thing. you can see lending tightening, you are going to see a still a need for financing. i am a big proponent of credit. not every active manager and every credit expert is going to be able to deliver these environments. there is expertise and skill needed, how do i think about prioritization? i think about priorities in terms of capabilities. i think about as skilled as we can be in data, in analytics, intech, in credit. in multiple asset classes.

do i think about that so one thing i'm focusing on, i don't have the luxury. i think we have to think about all of these things. francine: you are looking at acquisitions to be in certain spaces. >> we always said we would grow the firm and we would always look for acquisitions to increase our capability on content for clients. i think it's interesting is we completed our acquisition with private credit management in the u.s. what's interesting is that the multiples were more interesting. we have been talking about consolidation. since the gfc. this is one of those points i'm going to laugh about a few years time from now, but i actually think as we look at the entries in this space, as we think about the cost of running our businesses, if we think about the scale that we need to

operate at, i think -- on the multiples that we are starting to see coming down, i think this could be an interesting time for consolidation. francine: why has it been a long time coming, is it regulation or no appetite? >> i think when cash is free, it softens that. i think the moment where people need to deploy if you look at the trend, it's been private equity. it's been assets in a longer sit in the public domain. that has been our themes over the past 10 years. i think when private equity doesn't have as much cash in its harder, when lending is harder, there's opportunity for niche spaces and expertise to come about, and they want scale, they need to be able to operate at scale and having an organization that can deliver the amount of scale we put in play.

the bit is less sexy and exciting, but that infrastructure has been growing. that's what we do. francine: there's a lot of can offer, where'd you see it in five years? >> you talk to a u.k. listed ceo. i could not be more interested in u.k. plc. i think we have held such an extraordinary position in financial markets, generally. so anything we could do to keep that shine is important. the competition is high. and we shouldn't, the way we shouldn't in our firms is think all of our history is going to count for long if we don't keep running. so i'm great believer that we drive and continue to drive u.k. plc. there is such a lot of innovation and creativity and growth, such a lot of expertise

-- expertise -- expertise that sits and needs. anything we could do to keep it alive and at its top great -- top again, i'm all for, but we operate as an organization. i'm going to go with their strong capability to invest, where the markets are deeper, where the clients need us to be, where we can find opportunity. i'm going to continue to look for that. u.k. listed ceo who can't help but to want this to be great as well. francine: robin on being a female leader in an industry traditionally dominated by men. >> i am hopeful that we are going to see a better affection of different at the top of every organization, if financial services are brought on that. ♪

francine: women make up less than a quarter of employees at thousands of hedge funds and other investment firms globally. they are even more of an minority in senior positions. but when man group appointed an all-female leadership last year, it marked a massive shift for the company and a milestone for the industry. i continue the conversation with robin group. -- robin grew. 240 years old man group is. you are the first female chief -- chief executive of an institution that's 204 years old.

should it have been earlier, are you optimistic about the future of females in finance? >> i am hopeful we will see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, be it financial services. has it been a long time coming. i can't help but say, it would be terrific if we could see more female ceos before me. i hope you will see a lot after me. the difference is important. anything that labels us to put the most talented people at the top of the organizations, and to lead those organizations with enthusiasm and capability, is what we are after. i'm hopeful that i am knocking down some doors, barriers. francine: the first time someone meets you there's like the infectious energy that people notice. robin: it's one of those things i've been accused of being many

things of my time, but that slight duracell bunny. it is sometimes like i'm a big balloon in the room. it's something that i think is incredibly important. you don't do this job 98%, we do this job, this is where my mathematicians hate me if i do anything that's not 100%. francine: were you always like that or is it something that you've learned? >> to some extent, it's what fortune my career, that willingness and excitement to learn and to be part of fixing things, doing things better has been a hallmark. we -- i have a ridiculous enjoyment for learning and doing things. i walk into the organization or far offices and in a short

journey in london you have from zero to the fifth floor, if there somebody in the elevator with me, i'm asking a thousand questions. but it's interesting what's going on in what's happening, and it's interesting people. fundamentally driven by by the people we work for. francine: you started as a criminal barrister and went into finance. what made you switch? >> i love being an advocate and perhaps i think i am still in advocate. i thought i would do this commerce thing and i will go back and become a commercial barrister. and it sucked me in and i never went back. the speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge

of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me. so that legal training, has it been useful, yes. has the advocacy theme been more useful, probably, but it has been just the best journey. francine: do you have bad days, if you do, would you call. >> ghostbusters. if i have a bad day, i have always been a half-full kind of person. every belief i have is that you make the best out of those tough days. of course there are tough days. of course there are days when a challenges in front of you in a performance is in great where i feel like we could've done a better job. those are moments where you have to move forward. you have to take the next step forward. and, that's what i do. i think it is part and parcel of my makeup is to be resilient. do you know who i turn to, i

turned to friends and family and i take a break, i take a breather. normally, not a very normal breather because i get too excited by other things, but i fill my life, i fill my life with the things that are really positive around me. i have a great family around me, i have an extraordinary wife and a son, parents and friends, i am enriched by that. so that enables me to take the next step. francine: do you think there is a difference in being a leader in 2024 to what it was like in 2010? does leadership or chief executive jobs need to come with more of a sense of purpose and morally meeting? robin: i don't know what different way of doing it and that is with a sense of purpose, for sure. when you speak and you are in charge of an organization, i think it is incumbent upon leaders to be enthused and to be passionate, and to be engaged.

i think when times are tough, when things are tricky in the world, i think it's important that you know that, and that you acknowledge that in the organizations. and we have had some tough times , beyond markets, in the world for people to live their lives. we run global organizations with people who come from places that are now in war zones, or that are too close to borders where there are war zones. where the challenges have been very real post-covid, or where the issues are being felt materially in politics. and not to acknowledge that, i think feels inauthentic. francine: when you are in charge of a bigger organization, it's tough being close to your employees. how do you do that? >> it's about communication,

it's about being available, transparent, it's about setting your stall out. who are we, what are we, what are we here to do and how are we going to do that? how do we do that the best weekend. my view is you do have by creating extraordinary and exceptional teams that have a focus, and that understand the humanity of that, and that that's important. to do that, you need different people, because different people come with different backgrounds and different flavors of their experience of life. it isn't an easy thing to do, it's just a thing we should do. francine: it's tough employing people that will say no to you. how much do you think of you being surrounded by people who say, this is not a great idea. >> it's critical. if i will have people around me, their excellence needs to be something i hear. it's less likely my team might get cross with me with saying

this, it's really not the most likely pull of people from which the next brilliant ideas going to sprout or germinate, it's going to be other people within the firm. we need to hear that and it's important i'm seen as capable of listening and changing my position. there are times when i am going to be less willing to change my position, but have somebody who will come from any part of the organization to say, hey, i feel this way about this issue, and i don't think i'm being heard, is important. francine: where is robin grew in five years? >> still duracell bunning. i'm the best answer to every battery life but perhaps on a renewable charges basis. where am i, i hope still leading man group, i hope looking back on the last five years and thinking how i could do it even better. i hope driving things with the same passion and enthusiasm, and

i hope with the same brilliant set of people around me. francine: thank you so much. >> you are very welcome, thanks for having me. ♪ with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit...

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