>> from the heart of where innovation, money and power combined in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde in new york. ed: i'm ed ludlow in san francisco, this is bloomberg technology. caroline: full coverage of the salesforce dream conference where ai will take center stage and we will break them what to expect. ed: we will go live to

washington as tech leaders to send on capitol hill with a meeting with senators to discuss artificial intelligence. caroline: and we will stay in washington to get the latest from the google antitrust trial and break down the biggest takeaways from apple's wanderlust event and the continued china concerns. all that and much more including a quick check on the markets. we are actually getting a bid into u.s. benchmarks with the nasdaq up 0.4%. we managed to shake off the anxiety and european trading where the european benchmarks moved to the downside and the u.k. is showing signs of concern and we are worried about germany and the ecb signals tomorrow. the two year yield is tipping a little bit. the cpi print was the all-important number for the u.s. today and core cpi is still running hot, hotter than the fed would like so could we still see

hikes in november and december? it's enough to think the pause is on track for this month and the two year yield is getting a little bit above. let's dip into crypto. it's managing to stay above the 25,000 level. volatility is still there but with a slightly weaker dollar, up about 0.6%. ed: it's a mixed picture on this wednesday and we look at apple softer bite 0.3%. we fell in tuesday's session after we got the iphone 15. we will dig into that later in the show with mark gurman but we heard from the chinese government about media reports on the restrictive use of iphone in government agencies and state backed enterprises but they also said and reiterated that they haven't got any edict on legislation with the ban on foreign handsets in that muddy the waters. is still moving to the downside

which is common after a death after an iphone sales event. the two things we are watching principally are the leads of this show, oracle rebounding coming off tuesday where it fell by the most since 2002 on slowing cloud sales. we will get into that shortly and the treasury secretary with dream force underway in the story of salesforce has been about integrating ai into their existing crm and other offerings. brody ford is in town in the flesh. what's going on a dream force? >> it is back. dream force in downtown san francisco, i am one of them. the big thing for them is ai in the subtext is that salesforce has been grappling with growing above 20% every year and now it has come to slow down and there is some anxiety among the

investor community. ai looks like this beautiful accelerant to bring them back up. their pitch is like a lot of the incumbent players that you can get your data in plug-in into these llm's but can you trust that? through our platform, you can trust that, that's the pitch. caroline: we get the einstein upgrades and it sort of being injected across the offering of salesforce. you can see they say, thus, you know it's safe but there is anxiety across investors and the fact that maybe this talk of ai and the desire to have it doesn't immediately mean revenue picks up in the way it's anticipated. how will self -- salesforce navigate that one? >> they are pretty intentional about communicating it's going to get what the pricing will look like and it's really not that hypothetical.

you are selling software for salespeople. if you can automatically draft some outreach emails -- as a journalist, i would use that so a lot of use cases will be more immediate than some of the other ai we hear about. meaning quicker of a new -- quicker revenue uplift. caroline: we thank you so much, have fun out there as people get back together in the flesh. let's stay virtual for a moment and get to that managing director of institutional research keeping a kenai on the announcements coming out of salesforce and talking about why you would want to be with their ai offering. is this a credit space and are there significant winners in this? can you hear me? >> our perspective is that ai is going to transform a lot of

software businesses, if not all software and technology businesses. but it will take a while. there will be very few companies that benefit in the short term. nvidia and microsoft have a very clear story of how their businesses will transform and accelerate in the short term. for everybody else, they have to build ai products, they have to get that are and their customers want that and their customers expect that. it's going to take a while and their customers, for as much as they are asking for it, are also skeptical of products that have been rushed to market and they will be patient about making investments in ai and they want to see mature, ready for market products before they implement them in their business. ed: i know you're keeping a close i and what's going on. does anything of substance come out of dream force in terms of what you pass on to institutional investors about what you learned?

>> they are very good about relaying the product roadmap and how they're going to incorporate artificial intelligence into products like tableau and mulesoft and the core sales marketing offerings and how they will do it holistic late and how they will protect the customers data. this is what what their customers want to hear. it doesn't mean their customers are ready to push the button and buy new software but they want to hear that this is on the roadmap and they want to hear it's going to be part of the product going forward and maybe they will push the button next year for the year after. it's critical that salesforce presents a good vision and it sounds like they are. ed: the story of salesforce has been topline growth about 24%. when i posed to an investor that ai could return salesforce growth to that level, he just laughed.

where do you see ai taking this company? >> i think the burden of proof is on salesforce and every of the software company that is talking ai now. the salesforce revenue growth is barely double digits. they really had to come up with a new set of very compelling products for that to accelerate. either that or enterprise software has to pick up and we are not seeing that yet either. just like a lot of other software companies and we will talk about oracle in a second, ai is a big part of what they had to do but it doesn't mean it's driving revenue acceleration anytime soon. ed: for that reason, that is why we are thinking about oracle. the implication for that name are the same for salesforce? caroline: give us the sense if you were as shocked as the rest of the market the fact that we saw oracle shares tumble the most since 2002 well posting 30%

levels of growth in the cloud. it feels as though they cannot live up to the insatiable expectations of investors right now. >> oracle is still a single-digit grower. it was masked by the acquisition and they are growing boci cloud hosting business very rapidly but it's still a relatively small business for them and most of their other businesses are either flat, declining or growing slowly. they set expectations for ai -- [no audio] ed: i'm going to jump in and i think we have technical issues but we appreciate your analysis of both companies. thank you very much. coming up on bloomberg technology, apples latest iphones.

we will recap the apple launch event and dive in to what the companies doing to lure back consumers and what is frankly a sluggish smartphone market globally. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ >> since the first iphone, we focused on giving our users a device that's powerful and remarkably easy to use and beautifully designed. every year, we built on this foundation to create experiences that make a real difference in our users daily lives. today, we are pushing what users love about iphone even further. ♪

fabulous surroundings... but everyone's looking at their phones for financial insights from merrill. is he hailing a ride to the concert hall? no. he's making sure his portfolio and retirement plans work in harmony. they want to adopt a child and build a new home. so they're talking numbers with their merrill adviser. she's not researching her next role. she's learning how to handle market ups and downs without the drama. personalized advice so impressive your money never stops working for you with merrill. a bank of america company. ed: iphone 15, 100 $15.

the higher upgrade is $1100. when you hold both handsets in your hand, you will see the u.s. bc connector ending almost 12 years of lightning connector which apple introduced in 2012. goodbye ringer/mute switch. there are the titanium sides that arden new. the colors are interesting, limited options on the color side for promax. you get brighter pastel colors and for promax, it's what's on the inside, the a17 prosthetics desk processor, brings about more speed and memory and high performance for promax, new camera technology, up to %x magnification which is pushing

things forward on the photo site for iphone. you can see tim cook taking selfies with the crowd. caroline: did you get one? ed: you would have to wait for hours. i had bigger things to do. take my word for it, if there were a thousand people in the room, 90% of them said u.s. bc on the bottom. caroline: we have to go basic sometimes. all comes down to charging. ed: this was european union mandated and had a deadline of 2024 and apple jumped before they were pushed but it brings that device in terms with other apple devices and every other product out there from other brands. which color would you go for of caroline: caroline: what you just saw? anything gold, i'm into. the only issue is i didn't have to get a black plastic contraption to go with it. i'm kind of agnostic about it.

ed: i will ask mark gurman about that in a moment. let's bring him into recap the day that was in the apple event. the emphasis from the street has been the pricing of iphone 15 promax. they raise the price by $100. what technology do you get in return? >> the price increases interesting because they went as minor and stealth as they could on this. they've eliminated the 100 20 gigabytes capacity option for the promax starting at the 256 gigabytes so they didn't raise the price of the stores to your but they raised the price of the phone by removing the entry-level tear. about a 9% price increase in the u.s. but you have more sizable price increases elsewhere. there is a minor price jump in china. there's a 14% price increase on the pro models in india. in canada, a 50 canadian dollar increased on the regular pro and

a $200 canadian price increase on the promax. the difference between the pro and the promax differences are broader than ever. you are getting that periscope camera that gives you the five x zoom on the optical side so hardware shows no degradation and in 25 x zoom on the digital size of the quality will dip a little bit. you had that really intense 25 x zoom so it's an interesting strategy but i think the camera will come to the lower end model next year. caroline: the strategy is necessary because we know the context in which apple not only puts its new phones into the market worried about the chinese consumer but revenue has been on the downside and the iphone is still so integral. is it obvious this will be a hot seller toward the holidays? >> i've had some time to digest the announcements. i would say these are pretty minor refreshes overall but

there is a new casing on the iphone 15 pro and promax, the titanium. consumers that jumper iphones as early adopters want to buy what looks new. these new phones look new so they will buy them. the technology itself, the feature set is not going to feel much different or operate much different than the year prior. if you have a 14 pro, you'd don't have to update to a 15 pro. i think despite that, the new design will do enough and they will get done what they need to get done and that's probably me their sales expectations for the holiday quarter. you can see why their marketing is all in titanium. ed: we got the investor perspective on bloomberg television earlier today. there is a portfolio manager so listen to what she had to say? >> 40% of apple earnings comes from their services.

that services revenue is almost utility like in nature. it's the storage on your iphone. we are only increasing the amount of storage and the number of photos we have in the cloud. there is almost a stability aspect to the stock. granted, i do worry that the handset numbers are going to come under pressure not only in china but also in the u.s. ed: china is a concern. timing is everything. we are from the chinese government overnight about the reports of clamping down on foreign handsets. what is the latest? >> i would argue on the first point that services are not 40% of apple's overall revenue. if that was the case, we would have a different discussion. it's about 20% but they did announce new storage tiers, one for a $10 maximum of two terabytes to a 60 month maximum

at 12 terabytes. i would doubt anybody could fill that much up at those options are there. in terms of the china situation, it seems they are walking back some of these claims and reports by saying there has not been a band because china says that, doesn't mean it's true. i still believe that government agencies are pushing their employees and their workers do not iphones to work. publicly, they are walking that notion back. privately, they are probably still discussing the future of apple and that relationship. in terms of the other claims, they said they saw security issues on iphones but i think they are referring to some of the reports around iphone security. caroline: always bringing us the full picture, we thank you so much. let's talk about what's coming

up. we are not just talk about hardware and services. we are thinking about what goes on in the world of technology and how it affects the way you work. we will be thinking about all the artificial intelligence viewpoints there. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ all-day energy starts with clean hydration. lmnt. more electrolytes. zero sugar. you feel the difference when you get it right. stay salty.

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caroline: time for work shifting where we look at the changing landscape of the labor market. the git hub copilot has tens of thousands of enterprise customers. here to explain who was boosting productivity is the get hub ceo. i'd love to get a sense of how much we are seeing a speed up and how much productivity and how you measure that at the moment. >> thank you for having me.

every company now is a software company, not only big tech but it's every bank in every supermarket and every automaker, what they do is they are doing code and their machines and getting a copilot that will do the and multiple lines of code. in the last two years since we launched copilot, we saw half the code is written by copilot. and increases activity of up to 55%. we are seeing the first real use case for ai. the workforce is adopting us to productivity. caroline: you are within the microsoft overall family. openai has this relationship and there is some open source applications coming to the pipeline with some exuberance in the developer world for open interpreter. where do you go, open source or not open source?

what are the offerings? >> all of those will be covered in different use cases. open source helps you with analyzing data. it is for the microsoft user to process data and pull charts and those kind of things. with copilot, they have always been a developer tools company. their first ever product was all tear basic almost 50 years ago. we are going where the developer is. they have to understand code that goes as far back from the 60's in cobol. there are native companies that build the e-commerce world of today. all of them use code to build innovation. ed: how big a player or contributor is github in the

open source ai movement? >> we are the home of all open source. many if not the majority of open source projects is hosted github and many of the new ai projects are focused on github and we provide free hosting for their code. we are enabling them to use copilot to build their ai innovation. ed: i speak to all kinds of founders about copilot. are you able to tell me what specific coding projects are happening with copilot and do you track them and have the data that can tell you the specific areas of focus? >> we don't track on a large scale of a project, that would be a violation of her privacy. for individual organizations, we can show them the data in which

projects are most successful with the use of python or javascript. there are strong benefits from the use of copilot and a lot of kinds of code written for these projects. caroline: meanwhile, there are kate -- key leaders in washington right now. are you feeling that's going to be written well for githu to see this evolution on your platforms? >> we need to have these conversations happening because we need the regulation happening fast. we need the legal safety to apply these tools and get the productivity gains. many companies now have software spread around the world. they are in germany or india or australia so we need to have regulation that is somewhat equal across these countries.

otherwise, as the manager of thousands of software developers, i don't want my software developers in the united states to have a different productivity gain then are in germany or india. we've got to balance across these countries, not a competition. caroline: fascinating, we thank you. ♪

>> back to "bloomberg technology." i'm kellen hyde in new york. >> i'm ed ludlow in new york. the nasdaq 100, the tech heavy index has been a choppy week of trading, of monday and on tuesday. now we are up wednesday honestly, cpi data a little hotter than expected. we are asking questions for what the federal reserve does in the rest of the year, do they raise rates one more time again? what we care? high rates impact the cash well use of future cash flows for tech companies.

the nasdaq 100, lots of software names trading higher multiples. that is what we care about. specific movers, we are watching the leaders in artificial intelligence base. some names behind me, all moving to the upside, microsoft up, a big boost on the nasdaq 100, and meta-, we all three stocks have in common is they have their ceos in one place at a very important meeting. that is one of our top stories. 20 tech and civil society leaders are currently taking part in closed door senate meeting. let's talk about how to shape ai regulation. heavy hitters like elon musk, sam altman, and sunder butch i are present. we caught up with elizabeth warren and got her take who talk about muska. >> they are sitting at a roundtable by themselves, all the senators are to sit there and ask no questions, that is the set up. ed: for more, let's bring in anna edgerton on the ground in d.c.. what is going on inside of the room, and i?

>> i'm speaking with several people in the room with the ceos saying right now there's a discussion about open source. and security of sharing open source resource -- research. you have people like one of hugging face and others saying open source is good and important for innovation and you have other burgers -- others like mark zuckerberg saying it is a security risk. there have been interesting exchanges and we will see how the rest of the session develops this afternoon as they go into more conversation. caroline: how fascinating. we have of course elon musk coming live to us we understand. let's dip in for a second. >> i think it is clear there's a strong consensus that there should be ai regulation, that it would be in the best interest of the people to do so, and i think we will probably see something happen. i don't know what timeframe or -- >> that's a question, what are they going to do? >> i don't know. there is clearly regulatory

agencies before and just recently, the point was made that while our regulatory agencies are not perfect, and i deal with regulators on a regular basis with automotive, communications, star link, and the faa with rockets, i have had press with regulators for decades. while regulators are not perfect, [indiscernible] at the federal level least we should delete. >> do think there should be a department of ai? >> i don't know what exactly, perhaps the department of ai. i think the probability of it being some agency innocence on its own similar to the faa is likely. >> do you think so? >> i think so.

the reason i have been ai in advance of anything terrible happening, the consequences of ai going wrong are severe. so we have to be proactive rather than reactive. if you take say -- i'm being somewhat late for the faa, i meeting with the faa, but if you take the example of seatbelts, seatbelts were opposed by the auto industry for long time even though it was clear they were safe. they radically improved deaths and injuries. so we don't want to be in the situation where we are fighting regulations, there's a safety thing. we can't wait for millions to die in auto accidents. it's important to elevate the question here, the question is one of civilizational relevance.

it's not like one group plus another one group of humans versus another, this is like this is something potentially risky for all humans everywhere, very important to have said that. i got ago. >> do think congress is sufficiently ready regulate ai? >> no. it starts with insight. this is how all of the regulatory bodies i believe, if you start with a group within site that understands the situation, then you have proposed rulemaking, you will get projections from industry and ultimately you get a consensus that will make you then put in regulation. >> thank you. caroline: that you have a, elon musk speaking to reporters. seems to be as they draw to a

close for the lunchtime break, we understand some will be subbing in for the ceos of their companies and for the second half of the discussions with senators and broadly we heard from elon musk talking about whether or not we will see some sort of regulator start to oversee artificial intelligence. tell us if you can summarize the argument we have heard thus far of how you get to grips with regulating ai more broadly. anna: that is the question. i think you have most people in the room agreeing there should be some regulation but there is not agreement about how. when it comes to a licensing regime or regulatory agency, like musk was talking about, we know other companies like iv opposed the proposal where there's like microsoft and openai think that would be a good idea. we will see more policy discussion about that into the afternoon. the interesting thing about muska in his opening statement, he tried to make the point that the ai that powers self driving cars is not as dangerous as deep mind ai, that emulates human

intelligence. he did get pushback on that from one of the researchers from berkeley who made the point that self driving car powered ai could also make mistakes that could prove to be fatal. caroline: well said. anna edgerton, getting the insight on the closed-door meeting and with elon musk as well. let's continue this conversation. dominique shelton is with us, privacy and cybersecurity partner at mayor brown. her team is offering ceo and broad level advice on exactly this come on the impact of artificial intelligence and how it should be adopted without regulatory framework. are you positive we will get a regulator or will it be down to self-regulation once more? >> thank you for having me and thank you also. this is such an important issue. just hearing what ceo musk was talking about, how ai will impact all of our lives,

medical, financial, education, this conversation is happening with the senators is so important. we will see regulation of the only question will be whether united states moves first. we are very close to legislation being adopted in europe to govern ai and we are expecting that by december 2023. the issue is there are 37 countries and six continents that have draft legislation already before their legislatures and europe looks like it will go first with the u.s. behind. caroline: eu shifted tone, originally it felt there would be regulation of application of ai but suddenly turned its attention to the actual building of foundational models. that seems to be an argument pushback against at least from u.s. ceos. they don't to see the building of the nation waddled under some sort of scope here. is that already thrown out with the bathwater?

>> i think this will be an ongoing to be an ongoing debate in there's a discussion at the u.s. level and international level about having the actual deployer's, users of the ai, having guardrails as well as the providers and foundation models as well, generated ai, large leg which models. i think we are seeing proposals like the one i came out yesterday with senator blumenthal, ed holly, they have a framework that would in compass large leg which models as well as the other types of ai. ed: when elon musk was speaking a few moments ago he gave the analogy of acting on ai safety as being akin to the seatbelt, that with the seatbelt, action came after many tragedies and crashes and he wants to be proactive rather than reactive. is that an approach you think will work based on what d.c. is

saying right now? dominique: yes. i think it is exciting to see this number of ceos -- we have literally the most important and largest tech companies that are present in d.c. right now to discuss this issue. because they do see it as being important and they are being proactive. i think it is wonderful the academics are there as well and community groups are present at senator schumer's forum because we all need to grapple with these issues together. there is going to need to be communication from -- and proactive steps taken by leadership of our tech companies and they are doing that by their presence of being present to have these very important discussions. i'm excited for the future. ed: do you get the sense that policy makers legislators, are as collaborative on this issue as the private sector is? they are engaging on it with those leading the development of the technology? dominique: yes.

what i'm seeing is cross party in the u.s. come across party and bipartisan support around answering the call of many of these ceos to put in place the opportunities and governance and guardrails that will allow ai to be amazing. what we want is the ability to innovate and create understanding where there are limits or areas where safety needs to come first. this is something that the regulators and business community are aligning on. what is good this time is there is also the use of research scientists, large language model experts, to engage them on how this technology actually works and therefore how we can craft common sense legislation. caroline: what is it being talked about? -- is not being talked about? dominique: the nitty-gritty of

unanimity of thinking around the world in terms of what the legislation should look like what we see around the world a focus on risk ranking of ai, a focus on high risk, treating that differently than treating low risk ai. there is also focus on testing and monitoring and auditing of systems themselves to make sure they are amazing and doing exactly what the companies want them to do and what the public ones. i am excited for the way the legislation, draft legislation has been put together and framework that has been floated -- frameworks being floated in washington as well as around the world because we are getting at the actual governance that will make ai amazing. ed: caroline and i speak to companies and executives of all shapes and sizes and sectors and they are talking the talk and it is hard for us to discern if

they are walking the walk. do you see clients spending money and hiring the right people to operationalize any of what we have discussed? dominique: absolutely. what has been so exciting and what we have seen, we have an ai task force we put together at our firm because it is a cross disciplinary issue. everyday i speak to clients that are from fortune 500 companies, that are very serious about getting ai governance right. they are already looking at draft legislation and mapping to that now so they are prepared and ready to pivot when final regulations come in. they will be already ahead of the game. that is the way to approach this because, as mr. musk said earlier, regulation is going to come. the key is being prepared, and we are seeing clients in companies every day i talk to them that are laser focus on getting this right and being amazing with her ai. caroline: and global regulation at that, good to have a global

firm with us. thank you, dominique, coming into the future. dominique shelton leipzig. ed: let's get some talking tech. arm is exciting to price its initial public offering at the top end of its range or even higher. bloomberg sources say the softbank chip designer could be a dollar or more above its $51 target, set to begin trading on the nasdaq tomorrow. square enix is open to rebound from the underwhelming sales of final fantasy 16. the latest installment of its global hit series. nearly 200 -- $2 billion of its value has fallen since the games release. now investors are wondering if the legacy franchise has run its course. the ceo of finance u.s. left the company, brian schroeder, stepped down from his role as the struggling crypto platform conducted its second round of layoffs. or than hon hundred jobs have been cut from its workforce and a crackdown from the commission. caroline: let's talk about what

is happening in washington. 10 week stress trial between google and the department of justice is on the way and the government is accusing the giant of spending 10 billion hours per year to maintain what it calls a monopoly. with us is going to be a moment to dissect how we are hearing the arguments laid out. we ultimately know that it feels as though we are trying to reminisce to a 1990's feel of microsoft. how much is this the time we are going to see ultimately alphabets be able to fight back on the grounds that it is actually easy to be able to change the old ways in which you search. they are so good no one wants to do that. ed: yeah. what i would say is the reason we love hearings and court documents is sometimes a get crazy stories like what google was doing 20 years ago to fight off its competition. let's bring in our bloomberg reported -- reporter here from d.c.. that was a mainstay of your reporting, what was going on inside google 2003 and what the

justice department unearthed in those disclosures. what have we learned? >> the first witness that started yesterday afternoon is google's longtime chief economist and he was the one that came up with this strategy at they ended up pursuing to make a google's search engine the default across browsers and mobile devices. it sort of came out of what he wrote in 2003-2005 timeframe where they sort of discovered that if people had set google as their homepage, they ended up doing a lot more searching then if they had their homepage as something else like yahoo!, aol, msn. some of the other big webpages of the day. that sort of made them realize when you make it easy for people to do it, make it automatic, it ends up leading to more traffic and making google a better product. caroline: how varian has been

called to testify, one of the first moves made. are we likely to see this momentum build in terms of the argument of how long google has been aware of how important it is to dominate the world of search and ultimately whether it will ever bring about some sort of breakup? leah: yeah. as we were saying, this is a 10 week trial. i will be a lot of different witnesses, both within google and outside of google, talking about how its power has grown over time. that this person is the one they started to start with, the origin story of this, misconduct, as the justice department alleges. we are also going to hear from a lot of other interesting people including people who developed search, google's search rivals like folks at duct? and microsoft and -- we will hear from sunder pichai

himself who's the ceo but have come up and some of the emails in such because in the early days he was very involved in helping develop the search engine. ed: lian ilan on the ground, antitrust reporting from d.c., thank you. let's keep the conversation going. joining us is dw professor of law, and william, the trials are exciting. they give news flow, they give new disclosures, but the only question is, is this a serious threat to google as a whole entity? >> it is eighth serious threat. the threat goes back to the experience with the microsoft case which the department of justice brought over 20 years ago. the most important concept to come out of the case is there are important limits on what a dominant enterprise can do by way of buying up inputs, channels of distribution, that it and its rivals need in order to compete. the theory endorsed by the court

of appeals in the case is a dominant firm can overreach when it basically seeks to preclude its competitors from getting effective access to users. that core theory is the heart of this case, and i'm sure that is the theory google takes very seriously here in its defense. ed: he spent almost a decade as a nonexecutive director at the u.k. cma competition and markets authority. but your regulator haad-on and tell us what chances -- hat on and tell us what chances u.s. regulators have of a successful action against google or alphabets. william: they have a fighting chance to demonstrate there was an infringement of the law. because of this core concept that is favorable to them. obtaining relief that goes beyond prohibiting the specific conduct might be difficult, that is proven to be a tough challenge in the united states. the other thing that will be difficult to cope with in the

case itself is google's response. in talking about the placement of the search engine on these devices, i suspect google will ask the court, what would you have expected us to do otherwise? should we have stood by and not even bid in the auctions that determine who would be on the devices? should we have simply allowed our rivals to go ahead and obtain the precious real estate? what would you have had us do otherwise? by application, what should large firms do otherwise. i think that will be a card issue for the court to wrestle with but if i had to look at where the possibilities for success are, the government has a serious prospect of succeeding on the essential question of whether exclusivity was improperly obtained as a means of exclusion. caroline: we had rebecca allensworth on yesterday and thinking about sort of the concept of ultimately even if they win or lose this individual

case ultimately the pendulum is swinging in the way in which regulators look at big tech. you yourself at the ftc chairing it of course the agency from march 2008-2009. do you think conversations are permanently changed in the way regulators eye big tech? william: i think there's been a durable change in the risk appetite that regulators in the united states, united kingdom, as you are mentioning before, take in looking at the sector. i think there was a strong belief 20 years ago, going back to the documents leah was describing earlier, this is a dynamic sector and unpredictable changes, changes you cannot even identify at the moment, will deny any individual firm sustained preeminence in the field. those assumptions have been revisited and i think, globally, you see a change from thinking

the cautious about intervening to be willing to intervene, even though the specific outcome might be uncertain. part of that strong belief is simply having an active presence in the regulators limits the behavior of caroline: that all -- unpredictable moment is upon us, the fact generative a i swung into the mix and suddenly seems to be the most competitive threat to google's search that we have had in a long time? i'm interested the perspective that already in practice you think companies have been withholding from making purchases, withholding perhaps making changes to the way in which they react to competitors because of the way regulators are acting? prof. kovacic: i think we are going to get good insights in the trial on exactly that question but i suspect that what companies have continued to look for are opportunities to achieve real breakthroughs. the kind you were discussing in the previous segment with the

mosque interview, i think there is no question companies are looking for opportunities that will astonish by allowing them to achieve true preeminence in their own right but a very difficult and almost unmeasurable issue in the trial is whether you advance innovation more by being aggressive and intervening or whether you advance it more by being more permissive. caroline: fascinating. we thank you. gw professor of law, leah nylen. coming -- william kovacic . a cyber attack takes out part of the vegas strip. details next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ es or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

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lmnt. more electrolytes. zero sugar. you feel the difference when you get it right. stay salty. caroline: mgm resorts in las vegas was hit by a cyberattack this week, taking down payment systems, slot machines, guests ability to access hotel rooms and check in. details of the attack including who was behind a, the motive and type of information they obtained remains limited. a spokesperson for the fbi office in las vegas that they are aware of the attack, assisting and mgm says its hotels are really operational. plenty of frustration it feels. ed: some of the reporting is amazing, people forced to use cash, can you imagine? having to use paper money in this day and age come outrageous. check out the story on bloomberg.com because sadly that

does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." big show, recap it on our podcast wherever you find your podcast on the bloomberg terminal but we are also on apple, spotify, and iheart as well. from san francisco, and new york city, this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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matt: welcome to "bloomberg markets". let's kick it off with a check on where markets are trading. we have a risk on session for stocks. the s&p 500 up .3%, 44.7 five. the level we are looking at right now. that is despite the fact we saw inflation in in the core take up month over month. it was down year-over-year. i will show you the deep dive in a moment. our stock, the u.s. 10e