from arguments over the middle east. in gaza, thousands of palestinians have fled rafah, which israel still vows to attack — even though its international friends say "don't". there have been plenty of demos here too, but with america seeming to toughen its approach, what should the uk do? and this morning, more awkward questions for keir starmer about his brand—new defector mp. morning, morning — that question is on the foreign secretary's desk — and lord cameron is here with us this morning.

labour's jonathan ashworth joins us too. and with you and me for the whole show, nadhim zahawi, former cabinet minister who announced this week he's leaving parliament at the election. tina brown — journalism royalty, who knows a lot about royalty herself — the former editor of vanity fair, tatler, and author, now she's on the front line in the battle for the truth. and mp for coventry south, zarah sultana, one of the leading mps on the left, who has more followers on tiktok than any other mp at nearly 500,000. welcome to you all. thank you for being here today. it's the baftas tonight. the actor dominic west, who's hoping for a gong, joins us to talk about playing the king — and the role he really craves. a bond villain would be good. a bond villain? yeah. not bond himself? i'm a bit long in the tooth, i think. really, are you sure? oh, well... you're very kind. don't you fancy it? i think even roger moore was younger than me!

and away from the protests at eurovision, we're behind the scenes withjoanna lumley — and announcing the results from the uk last night. the 12 points, tolv poang, douze points, from the united kingdom go to... portugal! so, let's start as we always do with the news. notjust eurovision. the observer splashes on gaza — israel telling thousands more palestinians to leave the city of rafah. the sunday times reports natalie elphicke, who defected from the tories to labour, tried to lobby ministers about her husband's court case. the sunday people say that the tories knife �*crackdown�* is failing our kids. and the sunday telegraph features eden golan, the israeli singer, booed during the contest last night before coming fifth overall. switzerland's nemo won, with the uk coming 18th. not as bad as it sometimes is. let's talk to a panel about the main news

of the day, what is happening in the middle east. in the last hour, the un has again called for a ceasefire. tina, you spend a lot of time in america. they have been shifting their position towards israel, tell us about that.— their position towards israel, tell us about that. since january, biden has been trying _ us about that. since january, biden has been trying to _ us about that. since january, biden has been trying to persuade - us about that. since january, biden i has been trying to persuade benjamin netanyahu not to go into raffle. he's been doing it behind the scenes are more quietly, he has dispatched his foreign secretary, antony blinken, the head of the cia bill burns and it has been pretty fruitless. this has now become a major political issue for biden, as well as him being genuinely horrified by what he has been seeing in the civilian casualties, it's really a real political problem because it has actually split the democratic party in two, in terms of their attitude towards this. 33% of americans don't approve of this administration�* handling americans don�*t approve of this administration�* handling of the middle east and it is causing, just at the moment when the republicans are lining up behind trump, forging

unity, this is splitting his party. in michigan, the swing state, full of muslims, he is losing those voters at a moment when he cannot afford to lose voters.— afford to lose voters. nadhim, do ou think afford to lose voters. nadhim, do you think the _ afford to lose voters. nadhim, do you think the uk _ afford to lose voters. nadhim, do you think the uk should - afford to lose voters. nadhim, do you think the uk should follow. afford to lose voters. nadhim, do| you think the uk should follow the us�*s toughening approach? this you think the uk should follow the us's toughening approach?- us's toughening approach? this is really hard- _ us's toughening approach? this is really hard. israel— us's toughening approach? this is really hard. israel was _ us's toughening approach? this is really hard. israel was attacked i us's toughening approach? this isj really hard. israel was attacked on the 7th _ really hard. israel was attacked on the 7th of— really hard. israel was attacked on the 7th of october. i think the most eloquent _ the 7th of october. i think the most eloquent on — the 7th of october. i think the most eloquent on this has been the crown prince _ eloquent on this has been the crown prince of— eloquent on this has been the crown prince of bahrain when they said they condemn hamas, that the attack on civilians. _ they condemn hamas, that the attack on civilians, men, women, babies, was harharic— on civilians, men, women, babies, was barbaric and heinous. taking hostages — was barbaric and heinous. taking hostages and attempting to make the world believe that it is an act of war is— world believe that it is an act of war is unjustified. it reminds me of when _ war is unjustified. it reminds me of when we _ war is unjustified. it reminds me of when we had to take out isis out of mosul _ when we had to take out isis out of mosul it— when we had to take out isis out of mosul it is— when we had to take out isis out of mosul. it is hard to have a war in a dense _ mosul. it is hard to have a war in a dense populated area and protect civilians — dense populated area and protect civilians. israel must do everything it can _ civilians. israel must do everything it can to— civilians. israel must do everything it can to protect those civilians and show _

it can to protect those civilians and show the best of itself on the west— and show the best of itself on the west bank, making sure that no illegal— west bank, making sure that no illegal activity is taking place by settlers — illegal activity is taking place by settlers burning land, attacking innocent — settlers burning land, attacking innocent palestinians. because the palestinians are also the innocent people _ palestinians are also the innocent people in— palestinians are also the innocent people in this conflict. but there is an— people in this conflict. but there is an elephant in the room and that is an elephant in the room and that is the _ is an elephant in the room and that is the asymmetry. people talk about the war— is the asymmetry. people talk about the war as _ is the asymmetry. people talk about the war as if it's big, bad old israel— the war as if it's big, bad old israel going after little hamas. i think— israel going after little hamas. i think there is a much bigger challenge for the western world and that is— challenge for the western world and that is their marriage of convenience between the muslim brotherhood, and hamas is one brand, you have _ brotherhood, and hamas is one brand, you have islamichhad and other brands, — you have islamichhad and other brands, with the irg sea, the iranian— brands, with the irg sea, the iranian revolutionary guard. that is a much _ iranian revolutionary guard. that is a much bigger challenge. which israel— a much bigger challenge. which israel is — a much bigger challenge. which israel is at the forefront of. i think— israel is at the forefront of. i think israel needs to show the best of itself, _ think israel needs to show the best of itself, it— think israel needs to show the best of itself, it needs to lead the way, as i of itself, it needs to lead the way, as i am _ of itself, it needs to lead the way, as i am sure — of itself, it needs to lead the way, as i am sure you will hear from the foreign— as i am sure you will hear from the foreign secretary, in the creation of a viable — foreign secretary, in the creation of a viable palestinian state. it would — of a viable palestinian state. it would he — of a viable palestinian state. it would be a strategic error of judgment if israel does not lead to that process to create a viable

palestinian state with a credible palestinian state with a credible palestinian government that can then deal with— palestinian government that can then deal with the neighbours in the region — deal with the neighbours in the region. because the solution has to come _ region. because the solution has to come from — region. because the solution has to come from the region. we region. because the solution has to come from the region.— come from the region. we will talk to david cameron _ come from the region. we will talk to david cameron about _ come from the region. we will talk to david cameron about that. - come from the region. we will talk i to david cameron about that. zarah, what you think about the uk�*s approach? i what you think about the uk's approach?— what you think about the uk's auroach? ~ �*, , , approach? i think it's been truly traaic. approach? i think it's been truly tragic. 35,000 — approach? i think it's been truly tragic. 35,000 people - approach? i think it's been truly tragic. 35,000 people have - approach? i think it's been truly. tragic. 35,000 people have died, mainly— tragic. 35,000 people have died, mainly women— tragic. 35,000 people have died, mainly women and _ tragic. 35,000 people have died, mainly women and children. - tragic. 35,000 people have died, i mainly women and children. every single _ mainly women and children. every single university— mainly women and children. every single university destroyed, - mainly women and children. every single university destroyed, as - mainly women and children. everyl single university destroyed, as well as schools — single university destroyed, as well as schools we _ single university destroyed, as well as schools. we see _ single university destroyed, as well as schools. we see attacks - single university destroyed, as well as schools. we see attacks on - as schools. we see attacks on journalists, _ as schools. we see attacks on journalists, health _ as schools. we see attacks on journalists, health workers i as schools. we see attacks onl journalists, health workers and as schools. we see attacks on - journalists, health workers and the government— journalists, health workers and the government has— journalists, health workers and the government has done _ journalists, health workers and the government has done very - journalists, health workers and the government has done very little, l journalists, health workers and the | government has done very little, in fact _ government has done very little, in fact when — government has done very little, in fact when we _ government has done very little, in fact. when we look _ government has done very little, in fact. when we look at _ government has done very little, in fact. when we look at the - government has done very little, in fact. when we look at the role - government has done very little, in fact. when we look at the role we l fact. when we look at the role we are playing. — fact. when we look at the role we are playing. we _ fact. when we look at the role we are playing, we are _ fact. when we look at the role we are playing, we are aiding - fact. when we look at the role we are playing, we are aiding and - are playing, we are aiding and abetting— are playing, we are aiding and abetting ratao_ are playing, we are aiding and abetting ratao war— are playing, we are aiding and abetting ratao war crimes - are playing, we are aiding andl abetting ratao war crimes that are playing, we are aiding and - abetting ratao war crimes that are happening — abetting ratao war crimes that are happening on _ abetting ratao war crimes that are happening on a _ abetting ratao war crimes that are happening on a daily— abetting ratao war crimes that are happening on a daily basis. - abetting ratao war crimes that are happening on a daily basis. our. happening on a daily basis. our armed — happening on a daily basis. our armed licensing _ happening on a daily basis. our armed licensing system, - happening on a daily basis. our armed licensing system, we - happening on a daily basis. our| armed licensing system, we are constantly— armed licensing system, we are constantly told _ armed licensing system, we are constantly told astringent - armed licensing system, we are constantly told astringent and l armed licensing system, we are i constantly told astringent and read us, its— constantly told astringent and read us, it's a _ constantly told astringent and read us, it's a lie — constantly told astringent and read us, it's a lie we _ constantly told astringent and read us, it's a lie. we are _ constantly told astringent and read us, it's a lie. we are meant- constantly told astringent and read us, it's a lie. we are meant to - constantly told astringent and read| us, it's a lie. we are meant to have a principle — us, it's a lie. we are meant to have a principle which _ us, it's a lie. we are meant to have a principle which hasn't _ us, it's a lie. we are meant to have a principle which hasn't been - us, it's a lie. we are meant to havei a principle which hasn't been upheld and david _ a principle which hasn't been upheld and david cameron— a principle which hasn't been upheld and david cameron as _ a principle which hasn't been upheld and david cameron as prime - a principle which hasn't been upheldl and david cameron as prime minister in 2014. _ and david cameron as prime minister in 2014. under— and david cameron as prime minister in 2014. undera— and david cameron as prime minister in 2014, under a coalition _ in 2014, under a coalition government, _ in 2014, under a coalition government, reviewed i in 2014, under a coalition i government, reviewed arms in 2014, under a coalition -

government, reviewed arms sales in 2014, under a coalition _ government, reviewed arms sales to israel— government, reviewed arms sales to israel during — government, reviewed arms sales to israel during its— government, reviewed arms sales to israel during its conflict _ government, reviewed arms sales to israel during its conflict in— government, reviewed arms sales to israel during its conflict in gaza - israel during its conflict in gaza and said — israel during its conflict in gaza and said if— israel during its conflict in gaza and said if that _ israel during its conflict in gaza and said if that had _ israel during its conflict in gaza and said if that had continued, i israel during its conflict in gaza - and said if that had continued, arms sales— and said if that had continued, arms sales would — and said if that had continued, arms sales would he — and said if that had continued, arms sales would be suspended. - and said if that had continued, arms sales would be suspended. now- and said if that had continued, arms sales would be suspended. now we| sales would be suspended. now we have a _ sales would be suspended. now we have a higher— sales would be suspended. now we have a higher death— sales would be suspended. now we have a higher death toll. _ sales would be suspended. now we have a higher death toll. we - sales would be suspended. now we have a higher death toll. we have l sales would be suspended. now we have a higher death toll. we have a potential— have a higher death toll. we have a potential assault _ have a higher death toll. we have a potential assault into _ have a higher death toll. we have a potential assault into rafah, - have a higher death toll. we have a potential assault into rafah, where| potential assault into rafah, where 1.5 potential assault into rafah, where 15 million— potential assault into rafah, where 1.5 million people _ potential assault into rafah, where 1.5 million people who— potential assault into rafah, where 1.5 million people who are - potential assault into rafah, where 1.5 million people who are alreadyl 1.5 million people who are already displaced — 1.5 million people who are already displaced have _ 1.5 million people who are already displaced have nowhere _ 1.5 million people who are already displaced have nowhere to - 1.5 million people who are already displaced have nowhere to go - 1.5 million people who are already displaced have nowhere to go and j 1.5 million people who are already. displaced have nowhere to go and we are not— displaced have nowhere to go and we are not suspending _ displaced have nowhere to go and we are not suspending arms. _ displaced have nowhere to go and we are not suspending arms. it- displaced have nowhere to go and we are not suspending arms. it is- are not suspending arms. it is unacceptable _ are not suspending arms. it is unacceptable.— are not suspending arms. it is unaccetable. , ., ,, unacceptable. 0k, we will be talking to david cameron _ unacceptable. 0k, we will be talking to david cameron about _ unacceptable. 0k, we will be talking to david cameron about that - unacceptable. 0k, we will be talking to david cameron about that right i to david cameron about that right now. thank you for that by now. there are tensions around this notjust eurovision but demos on campuses in the uk and the us and marches in our cities. in gaza, tens of thousands more palestinians have been told to leave the southern city of rafah as fighting intensifies there. israel seems intent on continuing the fighting there despite calls of restraint from any of its allies. the un chief has in the last hour called again for an immediate ceasefire to stop more lives being lost. but there doesn�*t seem much sign that the israelis are listening to calls for restraint. the foreign secretary lord cameron is here with us this morning. president biden, our ally and

israel�* ally, said if they go into rafah, i am israel�* ally, said if they go into rafah, iam not israel�* ally, said if they go into rafah, i am not supplying the weapons. when you say the same? we don't weapons. when you say the same? - don't believe they should go in for don�*t believe they should go in for a major operation in rafah, unless they have a plan to move people out of the way to make sure they have shelter and food and medicine. we have not seen that plan so we don�*t support a major operation in rafah. but i do think the us and uk are in quite different situations. the us is a massive bulk supplier of weapon, so state to state. we don�*t do anything like that. indeed, uk export of weapons under our very strict licensing system is less than i% strict licensing system is less than 1% of israel�*s weapons. but strict licensing system is less than 1% of israel's weapons.— 1% of israel's weapons. but this is a question — 1% of israel's weapons. but this is a question of— 1% of israel's weapons. but this is a question of principle. _ 1% of israel's weapons. but this is a question of principle. president| a question of principle. president biden has very clearly said, if you take this action, there will be this consequence. it is not about how much is supplied, but the principle, isn�*t it? much is supplied, but the principle, isn't it? , . , ., , isn't it? the principle in our cases we have a — isn't it? the principle in our cases we have a very — isn't it? the principle in our cases we have a very strict _ isn't it? the principle in our cases we have a very strict system, - isn't it? the principle in our cases l we have a very strict system, based on legal advice to the foreign secretary and ourjob is not to

publish that legal advice or comment on the legal advice, it is to act consistently with it and that�*s what we do. it is a rolling process that looks at what israel is doing, looks at humanitarian aid, looks at the treatment of detainees and crucially, looks at the behaviour of the israeli defence forces and asks that central question, is there a serious risk of a serious breach of international humanitarian law? find international humanitarian law? and at the the answer to that is? the - at the the answer to that is? the answer up _ at the the answer to that is? the answer up till — at the the answer to that is? the answer up till now _ at the the answer to that is? tie: answer up till now has at the the answer to that is? tue: answer up till now has been at the the answer to that is? tte: answer up till now has been we at the the answer to that is? t'te: answer up till now has been we have allowed the export licensing to continue. that is a rolling process and we work on the basis of the advice. tit and we work on the basis of the advice. , ., , advice. in terms of president biden's advice. in terms of president itiden's very _ advice. in terms of president biden's very clear _ advice. in terms of president biden's very clear warning i advice. in terms of president i biden's very clear warning that advice. in terms of president - biden's very clear warning that if biden�*s very clear warning that if they go into rafah, you said and that you don�*t want them to go into rafah, he said there will be a cost and that is not about what is actually sent or supplied, it is also about a powerful diplomatic message. it is about a principle. 0ne message. it is about a principle. one of our viewers wanted us to ask you about this. they have been in touch to say, this is a point of principle, regardless of the amount

of arms supplied, the act of stopping the delivery carries a much, much stronger message. tt is much, much stronger message. it is undoubtedly — much, much stronger message. te 3 undoubtedly true. we could, if we chose to, make a sort of political message and say we�*re going to take that political step. the last time i was urged to do that, i didn�*t do that, and just a few days later, there was a brutal attack by iran on israel, including 140 cruise missiles. it was not tiny drones, huge cruise missiles, blasting into israel and i think it would entertain entirely the wrong message. it would have been a very unwise move. as a standard today, i think there is a better answer, which is hamas must take the hostage deal. you get the pause in the fighting and build a ceasefire out of that. but i think actuallyjust simply announce today, we�*re going to change our whole approach to arms exports rather than go through archival process, it would

strengthen hamas i make a deal less likely. t5 strengthen hamas i make a deal less likel . , , ~ strengthen hamas i make a deal less likel . , , �* ., ., likely. is president biden wrong to take that approach? _ likely. is president biden wrong to take that approach? he _ likely. is president biden wrong to take that approach? he is - likely. is president biden wrong to take that approach? he is another| take that approach? he is another totally different _ take that approach? he is another totally different position. - take that approach? he is another totally different position. for - take that approach? he is another| totally different position. for them it is not so much a principle because it is really, they are a massive state supplier of weaponry. they are involved in the idf tactical and strategic thinking, it�*s a totally different situation. what i want to do is make sure british policy has impacted. we have three things we want to achieve. we want to stop the fighting, get to the hostages out and remove the hamas threat. we want to get aid into the palestinian people in gaza and crucially want the long term solution of the two state solution that nadhim was talking about. are we making progress on those things? it is frustrating, not enough aid is getting through but we are hammering away every day, opening the port, getting despi are built of the girls on beach, switch on the water and the fuel back into gaza. —— getting the fuel back into gaza. —— getting the peer built on the gazan beach. i want to know what we can do to maximise the british pressure and to

help people in their lives, including getting the hostages, including getting the hostages, including british nationals, released. including british nationals, released-— including british nationals, released. ., , , , . released. you seem very frustrated b what is released. you seem very frustrated by what is happening? _ released. you seem very frustrated by what is happening? it _ released. you seem very frustrated by what is happening? it is - released. you seem very frustrated by what is happening? it is very - by what is happening? it is very frustrating _ by what is happening? it is very frustrating because _ by what is happening? it is very frustrating because i _ by what is happening? it is very frustrating because i am - by what is happening? it is very frustrating because i am a - by what is happening? it is very - frustrating because i am a supporter of israel and of the two state solution but i�*m a massive believer in the importance of getting aid through to the palestinian people. we had some big promises from benjamin i a few weeks ago and we have seen some changes that are positive but not enough. i was on the phone to his right—hand man in the phone to his right—hand man in the cabinet for an hour on friday, making these points. it is not all bleak, though. 0n the issue of the treatment of the detainees, i went to see netanyahu and said it wasn�*t good enough and we needed a proper system for regulating. the israelis have announced they are going to do that. we shouldn�*t overstate what britain can get done but nor should we understate it.— we understate it. what is interesting _ we understate it. what is interesting in _ we understate it. what is interesting in the - we understate it. what is interesting in the context we understate it. what is i interesting in the context of we understate it. what is - interesting in the context of all of this is the united states, very close ally, said on friday in their report looking at what was happening

in terms of breaches of international law, they said it was reasonable to assess there were breaches of international law going on. are they wrong? we breaches of international law going on. are they wrong?— on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given _ on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given israel _ on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given israel a _ on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given israel a clean - on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given israel a clean bill i on. are they wrong? we certainly haven't given israel a clean bill of haven�*t given israel a clean bill of health and on the issue of humanitarian aid, i�*ve repeatedly said that the israeli performance is not good enough. tit said that the israeli performance is not good enough.— not good enough. in terms of this oint not good enough. in terms of this point about _ not good enough. in terms of this point about breaking _ not good enough. in terms of thisj point about breaking international law in the way that the war is being conducted, the state department has said it is reasonable to assess... t said it is reasonable to assess... i heard that. we have a different approach. we have a legal assessment, comes to the foreign secretary, we don�*t publish that legal assessment or comment on the legal assessment or comment on the legal advice but must act on a way thatis legal advice but must act on a way that is consistent with it. of course, as we do that, we make statements to parliament, we give interviews like this to explain our approach. as i say, israel has not had a clean bill of health. 0n humanitarian aid there have been real failings and they need to do better. 0n the crucial question we have to answer, which is is there a serious risk of exports being used

for a serious breach in international law? up to now, in the assessments we have done, we have continued with the export licensing but it is a rolling process and it looks at what is happening on the ground. pare looks at what is happening on the round. �* , ., ., . ground. are they on notice, then? you have used _ ground. are they on notice, then? you have used the _ ground. are they on notice, then? you have used the term _ ground. are they on notice, then? you have used the term rolling i you have used the term rolling process several times. tt is you have used the term rolling process several times.- you have used the term rolling process several times. it is in a wa , process several times. it is in a way. yes- _ process several times. it is in a way. yes- we _ process several times. it is in a way. yes- we go _ process several times. it is in a way, yes. we go back- process several times. it is in a way, yes. we go back to - process several times. it is in a way, yes. we go back to the i process several times. it is in a - way, yes. we go back to the israelis and we point out individual instances we are concerned about and ask questions about that, as i did with the detainees. sometimes we get good answers and sometimes we don�*t but it is an ongoing process. so it is, in spite of what the labour mp said over the, it is one of the most rigorous processes anywhere in the world. , , , ., ., rigorous processes anywhere in the world. , , ., ., �*, world. just explain that, it's interesting, _ world. just explain that, it's interesting, you _ world. just explain that, it's interesting, you are - world. just explain that, it's i interesting, you are suggesting essentially british government lawyers go to the israelis and say, explain yourself on this incident? yes, yes, that is absolutely the process. as part of the assessment, there are issues we are concerned about, including on humanitarian aid, then we go to the israelis and

ask a series of questions about individual incidents and crucially on the humanitarian aid, where i am pushing the hardest. because of our engagement, my envoy on humanitarian aid, next week will be in the room with the israeli relevant cabinet minister, going through all of those bottlenecks about where aid is not getting through. as i say, what matters to me is, are we making an impact on those three things we are trying to fix?— trying to fix? one of the ways other countries are _ trying to fix? one of the ways other countries are trying _ trying to fix? one of the ways other countries are trying to _ trying to fix? one of the ways other countries are trying to have - trying to fix? one of the ways other countries are trying to have impact| countries are trying to have impact on humanitarian aid is funding being restored to the un relief agency. it was investigating it over claim some of its staff had links with hamas. that investigation has been done and other countries, there has been enoughin other countries, there has been enough in that investigation that has come out for other countries, including canada, australia and sweden, who have started giving it money again. if you care, as you appear to do very passionately about getting aid in, why not turn the taps back onto that aid agency that is on the ground?

there were two reports, my former french counterpart did a good report and some good undertakings were made but the actual investigation is done by the office of independent investigations, they haven�*t completed their report and i want to see real undertakings from unrwa including the man who leads it that they are going to investigate these things properly, that it won�*t happen again, that changing their procedures and everything else, because you can�*t expect us to pile backin because you can�*t expect us to pile back in and start funding and organisation when some of its own workers were involved on october the 7th. tt�*s workers were involved on october the 7th. �* , ., ., ., workers were involved on october the 7th. �*, ., ., ., ., workers were involved on october the 7th. �*, ., ., ,., workers were involved on october the 7th. �*, ., ., ., ., ,., ., 7th. it's good enough for some other countries though. _ 7th. it's good enough for some other countries though. well, i'm being i countries though. well, i'm being more demanding. _ countries though. well, i'm being more demanding. we _ countries though. well, i'm being more demanding. we haven't - countries though. well, i'm being l more demanding. we haven't seen countries though. well, i'm being - more demanding. we haven't seen the more demanding. we haven�*t seen the investigative report into what actually happened so i want to see both of the reports and then we�*ll make our decision after that. tit make our decision after that. in terms of another idea that could have helped, there was a proposal that uk troops could have helped on

the beaches in gaza, taking aid from a peerfrom the beaches in gaza, taking aid from a peer from the americans directly in, why is that not happening? tote in, why is that not happening? we are in, why is that not happening? - are playing a very full part in this in terms of the whole movement of aid from cyprus to either ashdod port or the pier on the beach in gaza, it will be a british royal navy ship, rfa cardigan bay, that will be one of the logistics hubs off the pier but the view was putting british boots onto the beach was not a good move, it�*s not necessary, there are other people who could do it.— necessary, there are other people who could do it. who's going to do it then? i think— who could do it. who's going to do it then? i think it _ who could do it. who's going to do it then? i think it will _ who could do it. who's going to do it then? i think it will be _ who could do it. who's going to do it then? i think it will be by - it then? i think it will be by tractor, it then? i think it will be by tractor. it _ it then? i think it will be by tractor, it will _ it then? i think it will be by tractor, it will be _ it then? i think it will be by tractor, it will be secure, i it then? i think it will be by i tractor, it will be secure, the arrangements are secure but we have tojudge again, where can arrangements are secure but we have to judge again, where can we arrangements are secure but we have tojudge again, where can we make the biggest difference? we are brilliant at the logistics, very good with the royal navy, great in our work with cyprus, we�*ve trebled our work with cyprus, we�*ve trebled our aid, our work with cyprus, we�*ve trebled ouraid, getting in by air, land and sea, but british boots on the ground is a risk we shouldn�*t take,

particularly it�*s why the americans are not putting their boots on the ground in the same way, there might be specific targeting of british or american troops so i think it�*s a wise decision was right in terms of the fortunes it appears very sadly of a british israeli man who had joint citizenship, nadav popplewell, we have had reports we think coming out from hamas suggesting he has now died. he out from hamas suggesting he has now died. . , . ~' out from hamas suggesting he has now died. .,, ., ~ ., died. he was taken hostage in the terrible attacks _ died. he was taken hostage in the terrible attacks on _ died. he was taken hostage in the terrible attacks on october- died. he was taken hostage in the terrible attacks on october the i died. he was taken hostage in the l terrible attacks on october the 7th. is there any information you can give us? t is there any information you can cive us? .., �* is there any information you can cive us? �* is there any information you can aiveus? �* ., , give us? i can't give you any new u dates give us? i can't give you any new updates this _ give us? i can't give you any new updates this morning. _ give us? i can't give you any new updates this morning. like - give us? i can't give you any new - updates this morning. like everyone else i watched the video on twitter last night, put out by hamas, of nadav answering a question as to who he was and i watched that video and you just think, what callous people they are to do that, to play with a family�*s emotions in that way. i met nadav �*s family, i met his sister, and i know the heartbreak they�*ve

been going through and when you see what hamas are prepared to do you just realised the terrible, dreadful inhuman people frankly that we are dealing with. maybe it�*s a moment for the bbc to ask itself again, shall we describe these people as terrorists? they are terrorists. if you kidnap grandmothers, babies, rape people, shoot children from their parents, what more do they need to do for the bbc to say these are terrorists, they really are. can ou are terrorists, they really are. can you confirm _ are terrorists, they really are. can you confirm if— are terrorists, they really are. can you confirm if you've been in you confirm if you�*ve been in contact with the family? t you confirm if you've been in contact with the family? i have met with the family. _ contact with the family? i have met with the family, i've _ contact with the family? i have met with the family, i've spoken - contact with the family? i have met with the family, i've spoken with i with the family, i�*ve spoken with the family on previous occasions, i�*ve seen the video, we are trying to work out what�*s happened, we don�*t want to say anything until we have better information. you don't want to say anything until we have better information. you made a seech have better information. you made a speech this — have better information. you made a speech this week _ have better information. you made a speech this week talking _ have better information. you made a speech this week talking about - have better information. you made a speech this week talking about the l speech this week talking about the threats around the world and the last time you were here you said the danger lights were flashing. we�*ve seenin danger lights were flashing. we�*ve seen in ukraine in the last day or so what appears to be new russian advancesin so what appears to be new russian advances in the north—east around the area of kharkiv, where people

are familiar with the geography given what has happened, does this look to you like the start of something very serious, a major summer offensive? something very serious, a ma'or summer offensive? what its the start of his another— summer offensive? what its the start of his another invasion _ summer offensive? what its the start of his another invasion by _ summer offensive? what its the start of his another invasion by putin - of his another invasion by putin into ukraine crossing over into their border and violating their sovereign territorial integrity is what you see this as another invasion? that�*s what�*s happened, north of kharkiv, there is a russian pawn that their anti—troops have come over. whether it�*s a full—scale assault on kharkiv or an attempt to create a buffer zone it�*s time early to say but there is no doubt what it is which is another part of the invasion. it sums up the importance of making sure that the support from allies gets through to ukraine. that�*s why the move that the americans have made, belatedly, but luckily now it�*s happened, of getting that 60 billion flowing will make a difference. we�*ve got to do everything we can to support the ukrainians, as we do we should zoom out a bit and see while they have lost some ground on land they have sunk about 25% of the russian black

sea fleet, they�*ve been incredibly effective as a set of armed forces and as a country and they deserve our support for swot you use the phrase this week, you said the uk must have the courage to act. to some of our viewers�* ears it sounds like more conflicts, more intervention, what do you mean by that? we have to do more to keep ourselves safe and that�*s notjust how we act overseas, if you take the last few months in britain we�*ve had china cyberattacking the electoral commission and members of parliament, we�*ve had russia sponsoring sabotage of factories in london and we�*ve had iran trying to target and killjournalists, british iranian dual nationals, working for iranian dual nationals, working for iran tv, so we are in a much more dangerous world and it impacts us, the things overseas impact is back here but there are things happening here. the courage to act means that right across the piece, whether it�*s the national security act, whether it�*s in funding our intelligence services, strengthening our police, policing our borders and

strengthening our borders, or whether it�*s making sure putin doesn�*t win in ukraine, all these things are connected and i think one of the crucial questions in british politics and public life in the next six months is going to be how do we make sure we deliver that sort of security in a very dangerous world? i note that you said definitively that china was behind that cyber attack on parliament. that that china was behind that cyber attack on parliament.— that china was behind that cyber attack on parliament. that is our view and that — attack on parliament. that is our view and that is _ attack on parliament. that is our view and that is why _ attack on parliament. that is our view and that is why the - attack on parliament. that is our view and that is why the chinese | view and that is why the chinese ambassador was summoned and why we are taking it so seriously. tqm. are taking it so seriously. ok, let's talk _ are taking it so seriously. ok, let's talk at — are taking it so seriously. ok, let's talk at the _ are taking it so seriously. ok, let's talk at the end _ are taking it so seriously. ok, let's talk at the end about let�*s talk at the end about politics. natalie elphicke until a few days ago was in your party. the sunday times reports she is a labour mp, she lobbied ministers about her husband�*s court case. is that is the case why did your conservative colleagues not say anything about it at the time? t�*zre colleagues not say anything about it at the time?— at the time? i've only 'ust seen this story in h at the time? i've only 'ust seen this story in the _ at the time? i've onlyjust seen this story in the papers, - at the time? i've onlyjust seen this story in the papers, i've i at the time? i've onlyjust seen | this story in the papers, i've got this story in the papers, i�*ve got no idea about it. all i know is natalie elphicke�*s defection said a little bit about natalie elphicke but says a lot more about the labour party, here is a right—wing mp who had no affinity with labour policies

or labour people or labour philosophy and they welcome her aim. it says a huge amount about the labour party. if you don�*t have a plan, policies, things you stand for, you will literally fall for anything, so natalie elphicke is now frankly a labour press office problem, i expect their phones are ringing off the hook this morning, it�*s not a conservative problem any more. it's not a conservative problem any more. ., ,., it's not a conservative problem any more. ., , .,, , it's not a conservative problem any more. ., , , , more. you sound pleased she is in their hands. _ more. you sound pleased she is in their hands, not _ more. you sound pleased she is in their hands, not yours. _ more. you sound pleased she is in | their hands, not yours. sometimes more. you sound pleased she is in i their hands, not yours. sometimes it tolitics it their hands, not yours. sometimes it politics it looks _ their hands, not yours. sometimes it politics it looks like _ their hands, not yours. sometimes it politics it looks like it's _ their hands, not yours. sometimes it politics it looks like it's bad - their hands, not yours. sometimes it politics it looks like it's bad for - politics it looks like it�*s bad for one party, a tory has left and all the rest of it, but you zoom out and it says a lot more about keir starmer�*s labour party and the utter lack of a plan than it does about the conservatives who this week, the economy is growing, cutting national insurance by £900, pensions up by £900, you see a situation where inflation is falling, interest rates are coming down, taxes are coming down, the plan is working. you have jonathan on later... used to call it rishi�*s recession, now he�*ll have to

call it rishi�*s recovery. tote rishi's recession, now he'll have to call it rishi's recovery.— call it rishi's recovery. we are trateful call it rishi's recovery. we are grateful to _ call it rishi's recovery. we are grateful to you _ call it rishi's recovery. we are grateful to you coming - call it rishi's recovery. we are grateful to you coming into i call it rishi's recovery. we are| grateful to you coming into the studio this morning. what did you think of what the foreign secretary had to say? you can send us an e—mail. 0ryou can had to say? you can send us an e—mail. or you can use the hashtag bbclaurak. you can sign to our newsletter which comes up on thursdays and the addresses on the screen. zarah, what did you make of what david cameron had to say? t�*tre did you make of what david cameron had to sa ? �* ., had to say? i've heard the same lines in parliament, _ had to say? i've heard the same lines in parliament, i— had to say? i've heard the same lines in parliament, i don't- had to say? i've heard the same| lines in parliament, i don't know lines in parliament, i don�*t know how government ministers can say we have a robust licensing system with a straight face which is strictly not true. the comments about how small the trade as compared to the us is irrelevant, it doesn�*t matter, our licensing law, our domestic law, international law, has a principle that if there is a clear overriding risk that arms or components of arms could be used to facilitate or be

complicit in violations of international law that those arms should be suspended. that has not happened. d0 should be suspended. that has not ha- tened. ,, ~ ., happened. do you think foreign office lawyers _ happened. do you think foreign office lawyers are _ happened. do you think foreign office lawyers are getting - happened. do you think foreign office lawyers are getting it - happened. do you think foreign - office lawyers are getting it wrong? the foreign secretary described the process, british government lawyers look at what�*s happening, they talk to the israelis... look at what's happening, they talk to the israelis. . ._ to the israelis... bring forward the letal to the israelis... bring forward the legal advice. _ to the israelis... bring forward the legal advice, it's _ to the israelis... bring forward the legal advice, it's been _ to the israelis... bring forward the legal advice, it's been requested i legal advice, it�*s been requested time and time again, there is a court case going on where court case documents show the government is reviewing historical data, from six weeks ago, when they are making assessments, for example with the world central kitchen attack, where seven aid workers including three british nationals were killed, david cameron and kemi badenoch made a decision to continue arms sales just two days later. i think viewers would be shocked that three british nationals were killed in a deadly israeli air strike and our government said it still 0k to continue arms sales. government said it still ok to continue arms sales. nadhim, you've been on the — continue arms sales. nadhim, you've been on the inside _ continue arms sales. nadhim, you've been on the inside of _ continue arms sales. nadhim, you've been on the inside of government i continue arms sales. nadhim, you'vel been on the inside of government and had difficult moments, hat what did

you think of how david cameron tried to justify decisions?— to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was _ to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early _ to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early in _ to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early in my _ to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early in my career- to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early in my career as i to justify decisions? just... zarah, when i was early in my career as a bericher— when i was early in my career as a bencherand— when i was early in my career as a bencherandl when i was early in my career as a bencherand i sat when i was early in my career as a bencher and i sat on the arms control— bencher and i sat on the arms control committee and business committee and we had the interrogation of the post office and the committee on arms export control in our— the committee on arms export control in our parliament is one of the rigorous — in our parliament is one of the rigorous committees and it's an injustice — rigorous committees and it's an injustice to speak in the way you've spoken— injustice to speak in the way you've spoken about both the system that we have in _ spoken about both the system that we have in government but also in parliament the fact we scrutinise arms— parliament the fact we scrutinise arms exports and arms export controls, — arms exports and arms export controls, so all i would say to you is what _ controls, so all i would say to you is what you've just heard from david cameron, _ is what you've just heard from david cameron, i— is what you've just heard from david cameron, i think, is what you've just heard from david cameron, ithink, was is what you've just heard from david cameron, i think, was transparent and robust — cameron, i think, was transparent and robust and he articulated exactly — and robust and he articulated exactly the process that's in place. why in_ exactly the process that's in place. why in 2014 did he say they would suspend arms sales, was the threshold lower then, is it higher

now? it seems to me the government has latitude to pick and choose when it wants to apply the criteria because government ministers have discretion and right now for whatever reason it might be they do not want to apply the criteria at all, that�*s what it seems like. t all, that's what it seems like. i again go back to you and say to you you've _ again go back to you and say to you you've heard — again go back to you and say to you you've heard the foreign secretary describe _ you've heard the foreign secretary describe in — you've heard the foreign secretary describe in detail to law of the process, — describe in detail to law of the process, it's a rolling process... six weeks. _ process, it's a rolling process... six weeks, six weeks. nevertheless it's a rolling — six weeks, six weeks. nevertheless it's a rolling process _ six weeks, six weeks. nevertheless it's a rolling process and _ six weeks, six weeks. nevertheless it's a rolling process and it's - it's a rolling process and it's rigorous _ it's a rolling process and it's rigorous. it's a disservice parliament to say the committee doesn't _ parliament to say the committee doesn't do this... parliament to say the committee doesn't do this. . ._ parliament to say the committee doesn't do this... change it to six weeks before _ doesn't do this... change it to six weeks before -- _ doesn't do this... change it to six weeks before -- because - doesn't do this... change it to six weeks before -- because they i doesn't do this... change it to six | weeks before -- because they find doesn't do this... change it to six i weeks before -- because they find it weeks before —— because they find it too time—consuming to review deity, that�*s an acceptable. tt too time-consuming to review deity, that's an acceptable.— that's an acceptable. it said dilemma — that's an acceptable. it said dilemma for _ that's an acceptable. it said dilemma for politicians - that's an acceptable. it said dilemma for politicians to i that's an acceptable. it said - dilemma for politicians to manage this and it stirs a strong feelings everywhere with lots of our viewers and people who have been on marches with lots of people worried about exactly what is happening on all sides. tina, as we said, you spend a lot of time in the us, how much do you think this conflict is changing

politics? tt�*s you think this conflict is changing tolitics? �* , . ., politics? it's changing it enormously _ politics? it's changing it enormously and - politics? it's changing it enormously and what i politics? it's changing it enormously and what is| politics? it's changing it i enormously and what is so politics? it's changing it _ enormously and what is so difficult for biden— enormously and what is so difficult for biden is— enormously and what is so difficult for biden is that _ enormously and what is so difficult for biden is that the _ enormously and what is so difficult for biden is that the protests - enormously and what is so difficult for biden is that the protests on i for biden is that the protests on the campuses— for biden is that the protests on the campuses although - for biden is that the protests on the campuses although in - for biden is that the protests on the campuses although in fact l for biden is that the protests on - the campuses although in fact when you poll— the campuses although in fact when you poll young _ the campuses although in fact when you poll young people _ the campuses although in fact when you poll young people, gaza - the campuses although in fact when you poll young people, gaza is - the campuses although in fact when you poll young people, gaza is lowl you poll young people, gaza is low down _ you poll young people, gaza is low down on _ you poll young people, gaza is low down on the — you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, _ you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, the _ you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, the fact - you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, the fact is- you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, the fact is it's - you poll young people, gaza is low down on the list, the fact is it's a i down on the list, the fact is it's a passionate — down on the list, the fact is it's a passionate issue _ down on the list, the fact is it's a passionate issue amongst - down on the list, the fact is it's a passionate issue amongst the . down on the list, the fact is it's a - passionate issue amongst the young. we've _ passionate issue amongst the young. we've just _ passionate issue amongst the young. we've just heard _ passionate issue amongst the young. we've just heard. this _ passionate issue amongst the young. we've just heard.— we've 'ust heard. as we've 'ust heard we've just heard. as we've 'ust heard and fi we've just heard. as we've 'ust heard and what it's * we've just heard. as we've just heard and what it's showing - we've just heard. as we've just - heard and what it's showing people essentially— heard and what it's showing people essentially its — heard and what it's showing people essentially its scenes _ heard and what it's showing people essentially its scenes of _ heard and what it's showing people essentially its scenes of disorder i essentially its scenes of disorder which _ essentially its scenes of disorder which plays — essentially its scenes of disorder which plays in— essentially its scenes of disorder which plays in brilliantly- which plays in brilliantly off—course _ which plays in brilliantly off—course to _ which plays in brilliantly off—course to the - which plays in brilliantlyj off—course to the trump which plays in brilliantly- off—course to the trump message which _ off—course to the trump message which is _ off—course to the trump message which is his— off—course to the trump message which is his message _ off—course to the trump message which is his message is _ off—course to the trump message which is his message is america i off—course to the trump message | which is his message is america is in chaos, — which is his message is america is in chaos, america, _ which is his message is america is in chaos, america, the _ which is his message is america is in chaos, america, the board - which is his message is america is in chaos, america, the board is. which is his message is america is in chaos, america, the board is in| in chaos, america, the board is in chaos, _ in chaos, america, the board is in chaos, marches, _ in chaos, america, the board is in chaos, marches, protests, - in chaos, america, the board is in. chaos, marches, protests, students smashing _ chaos, marches, protests, students smashing windows. _ chaos, marches, protests, students smashing windows, it _ chaos, marches, protests, students smashing windows, it actually - chaos, marches, protests, students smashing windows, it actually playsj smashing windows, it actually plays very much— smashing windows, it actually plays very much into _ smashing windows, it actually plays very much into the _ smashing windows, it actually plays very much into the trump _ smashing windows, it actually plays very much into the trump narrative | very much into the trump narrative with the _ very much into the trump narrative with the imagery— very much into the trump narrative with the imagery and _ very much into the trump narrative with the imagery and when - very much into the trump narrative with the imagery and when you - very much into the trump narrative i with the imagery and when you think back to _ with the imagery and when you think back to 1968. — with the imagery and when you think back to 1968, the _ with the imagery and when you think back to 1968, the protests _ back to 1968, the protests off-course _ back to 1968, the protests off—course over— back to 1968, the protests off—course over vietnam, i back to 1968, the protests - off—course over vietnam, righteous though— off—course over vietnam, righteous though they— off—course over vietnam, righteous though they were _ off—course over vietnam, righteous though they were, the _ off—course over vietnam, righteous though they were, the fact - off—course over vietnam, righteous though they were, the fact is - off—course over vietnam, righteous though they were, the fact is that l though they were, the fact is that what _ though they were, the fact is that what happened _ though they were, the fact is that what happened was _ though they were, the fact is that what happened was it _ though they were, the fact is that what happened was it elected - though they were, the fact is that. what happened was it elected nixon, certainly— what happened was it elected nixon, certainly helped _ what happened was it elected nixon, certainly helped elect _ what happened was it elected nixon, certainly helped elect nixon- what happened was it elected nixon, certainly helped elect nixon and - what happened was it elected nixon, certainly helped elect nixon and the| certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued — certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued as— certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued as a _ certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued as a result, _ certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued as a result, so - certainly helped elect nixon and the war continued as a result, so it's- war continued as a result, so it's very— war continued as a result, so it's very dangerous _ war continued as a result, so it's very dangerous politically- war continued as a result, so it's very dangerous politically for- war continued as a result, so it'sl very dangerous politically for him fuss why— very dangerous politically for him fuss why i— very dangerous politically for him fuss why i want _ very dangerous politically for him fuss why i want to _

very dangerous politically for him fuss why i want to talk _ very dangerous politically for him fuss why i want to talk in - very dangerous politically for him fuss why i want to talk in a - very dangerous politically for him l fuss why i want to talk in a second about— fuss why i want to talk in a second about trump— fuss why i want to talk in a second about trump and _ fuss why i want to talk in a second about trump and the _ fuss why i want to talk in a second about trump and the truth - fuss why i want to talk in a second about trump and the truth and - fuss why i want to talk in a second . about trump and the truth and what's really— about trump and the truth and what's really going _ about trump and the truth and what's really going on — about trump and the truth and what's really going on in— about trump and the truth and what's really going on in america _ about trump and the truth and what's really going on in america and - about trump and the truth and what's really going on in america and how. really going on in america and how people _ really going on in america and how people are — really going on in america and how people are understanding - really going on in america and how people are understanding the - really going on in america and how| people are understanding the news there _ people are understanding the news there but— people are understanding the news there but zarah, _ people are understanding the news there but zarah, how— people are understanding the news there but zarah, how tricky- people are understanding the news there but zarah, how tricky and - people are understanding the newsi there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do— there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do you — there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do you think— there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do you think this _ there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do you think this situation - there but zarah, how tricky and how risky do you think this situation is i risky do you think this situation is for keir— risky do you think this situation is for keir starmer— risky do you think this situation is for keir starmer in _ risky do you think this situation is for keir starmer in your— risky do you think this situation is for keir starmer in your party? i risky do you think this situation is| for keir starmer in your party? we talked _ for keir starmer in your party? we talked a _ for keir starmer in your party? we talked a lot— for keir starmer in your party? we talked a lot last _ for keir starmer in your party? we talked a lot last week— for keir starmer in your party? we talked a lot last week about - for keir starmer in your party? we talked a lot last week about how. for keir starmer in your party? we| talked a lot last week about how in some _ talked a lot last week about how in some pockets— talked a lot last week about how in some pockets of— talked a lot last week about how in some pockets of the _ talked a lot last week about how in some pockets of the country- talked a lot last week about how in| some pockets of the country labour lost votes. — some pockets of the country labour lost votes, lost _ some pockets of the country labour lost votes, lost councillors, - lost votes, lost councillors, because _ lost votes, lost councillors, because of— lost votes, lost councillors, because of unhappiness - lost votes, lost councillors, because of unhappiness on| lost votes, lost councillors, i because of unhappiness on the lost votes, lost councillors, - because of unhappiness on the left about— because of unhappiness on the left about the — because of unhappiness on the left about the leadership _ because of unhappiness on the left about the leadership is _ because of unhappiness on the left about the leadership is my- because of unhappiness on the leftl about the leadership is my position. it's about the leadership is my position. it's massively— about the leadership is my position. it's massively concerning. _ about the leadership is my position. it's massively concerning. in - about the leadership is my position. it's massively concerning. in the - it�*s massively concerning. in the west midlands we won the mayoralty with richard parker with 1500 votes, an independent candidate gained 70,000, 80,000 votes in birmingham, 40,000 armoured you kubot so won so when we at bristol and saw the greens increase their councillor numbers and we saw how progressives, notjust numbers and we saw how progressives, not just muslim numbers and we saw how progressives, notjust muslim voters but people who feel very passionately about the environment at what�*s happening in gaza, when we look at how they feel the labour party is approaching theseissues the labour party is approaching these issues we should be concerned because while we are on set gain power and going to government, we cannot take any group for granted

and these issues are really important issues in particular i�*ve called on the labour party to have a better position, we�*ve moved in the right direction, the labour party needs to call for an immediate suspension of arms sales and i�*ve seen the briefings that the labour party is calling similarly to biden for suspension if there is an assault in rafah, but we should have had that position a long time ago. will talk tojonathan had that position a long time ago. will talk to jonathan ashworth from the labour front bench shortly but tina, on trump, you have covered american politics for a long time, you are now involved in this project about truth telling. how concerned are you about trump return? a lot of people want to vote for him, a lot of people think he should be on the way back to the white house, very polarised on the other side, other people think it doesn�*t tell the truth about what�*s outside the window. what has happened, i have started a sum at _

what has happened, i have started a sum at every year in my husband's namer _ sum at every year in my husband's name. the — sum at every year in my husband's name, the truth tellers a summit and i name, the truth tellers a summit and i bring _ name, the truth tellers a summit and i bring together with my partners, incredible — i bring together with my partners, incredible journalists from all over the world — incredible journalists from all over the world to talk about these issues and to— the world to talk about these issues and to strengthen the bonds for journalists as journalism is under such— journalists as journalism is under such assault. trump's return is filling — such assault. trump's return is filling everybody with a great deal of anxiety. in some ways, journalists sharpen their game this time around because last time, they let trump— time around because last time, they let trump sort of totally run the narrative — let trump sort of totally run the narrative, tell all of these lies and they— narrative, tell all of these lies and they kind of rolled out without being _ and they kind of rolled out without being fact — and they kind of rolled out without being fact checked. this time, there is a lot— being fact checked. this time, there is a lot more — being fact checked. this time, there is a lot more fact checking. journalists got it wrong last time. they— journalists got it wrong last time. they all— journalists got it wrong last time. they all thought hillary was going to win _ they all thought hillary was going to win and that is because essentially polls have taken over from _ essentially polls have taken over from reporting. instead of actual reporting — from reporting. instead of actual reporting and people going on the ground, _ reporting and people going on the ground, people talk about the polls and they— ground, people talk about the polls and they were all wrong and won't actually— and they were all wrong and won't actually talking to people on the ground — actually talking to people on the ground and understanding the appeal of trump _ ground and understanding the appeal of trump. what trump has actually managed _ of trump. what trump has actually managed to do brilliantly, essentially, is undermine confidence

injournalism. the fact is 59% of republicans don't think that anything they read in the media is true _ anything they read in the media is true they— anything they read in the media is true. they have no trust in it at all. true. they have no trust in it at all he — true. they have no trust in it at all he has _ true. they have no trust in it at all. he has essentially, he has succeeded in undermining confidence in the _ succeeded in undermining confidence in the media in a very dangerous way~ _ in the media in a very dangerous wa . ., ., in the media in a very dangerous wa , ., ., , ., in the media in a very dangerous wa. ., ., , ., ., ., way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster _ way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster for _ way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster for a _ way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster for a long _ way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster for a long time - way. you are sitting to someone who was a pollster for a long time and i was a pollster for a long time and then turned politician. you announce this week after your career in westminster, you have done all sorts of governmentjobs, you are standing down, why? tt of government “obs, you are standing down, wh ? ., , of government “obs, you are standing down, wh ? ., of government “obs, you are standing down, whys— down, why? it was a really tough choice, down, why? it was a really tough choice. the _ down, why? it was a really tough choice, the heart _ down, why? it was a really tough choice, the heart said _ down, why? it was a really tough choice, the heart said keep - down, why? it was a really toughj choice, the heart said keep going and their— choice, the heart said keep going and their head _ choice, the heart said keep going and their head said _ choice, the heart said keep going and their head said it's _ choice, the heart said keep going and their head said it's time - choice, the heart said keep going and their head said it's time to. choice, the heart said keep goingi and their head said it's time to let and their head said it's time to let a younger— and their head said it's time to let a younger more _ and their head said it's time to let a younger more energetic- and their head said it's time to let a younger more energetic personl a younger more energetic person fi-ht a younger more energetic person fight a _ a younger more energetic person fight a pretty— a younger more energetic person fight a pretty vital— a younger more energetic person fight a pretty vital election - a younger more energetic person fight a pretty vital election for. a younger more energetic person| fight a pretty vital election for my party _ fight a pretty vital election for my party i_ fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look— fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look at— fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look at my— fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look at my life _ fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look at my life at - fight a pretty vital election for my party. i look at my life at decadel party. i look at my life at decade intervals — party. i look at my life at decade intervals i— party. i look at my life at decade intervals. i did _ party. i look at my life at decade intervals. i did a _ party. i look at my life at decade intervals. i did a decade - party. i look at my life at decade intervals. i did a decade at- party. i look at my life at decade i intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the _ intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade _ intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade and _ intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade and a _ intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade and a half- intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade and a half in - intervals. i did a decade at yougov and the decade and a half in frontl and the decade and a half in front line politics _ and the decade and a half in front line politics i_ and the decade and a half in front line politics. i think— and the decade and a half in front line politics. i think it— and the decade and a half in front line politics. i think it is— and the decade and a half in front line politics. i think it is time - and the decade and a half in front line politics. i think it is time to l line politics. i think it is time to move _ line politics. i think it is time to move on — line politics. i think it is time to move on it _ line politics. i think it is time to move on it is _ line politics. i think it is time to move on. it is a _ line politics. i think it is time to move on. it is a wonderful- line politics. i think it is time to| move on. it is a wonderful seat, line politics. i think it is time to i move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat _ move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat in _ move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat in parliament, _ move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat in parliament, and _ move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat in parliament, and i- move on. it is a wonderful seat, a seat in parliament, and i think- move on. it is a wonderful seat, aj seat in parliament, and i think it's deserving — seat in parliament, and i think it's deserving of— seat in parliament, and i think it's deserving of a _

seat in parliament, and i think it's deserving of a young, _ seat in parliament, and i think it's deserving of a young, energetic. deserving of a young, energetic conservative _ deserving of a young, energetic conservative. the _ deserving of a young, energetic conservative. the list— deserving of a young, energetic conservative. the list will- deserving of a young, energetic conservative. the list will be i deserving of a young, energetic conservative. the list will be as long _ conservative. the list will be as long as — conservative. the list will be as long as my— conservative. the list will be as long as myarm~ _ conservative. the list will be as long as myarm~ l— conservative. the list will be as long as my arm-— conservative. the list will be as long as my arm. i am sure there will be lots of people _ long as my arm. i am sure there will be lots of people fighting _ long as my arm. i am sure there will be lots of people fighting for - long as my arm. i am sure there will be lots of people fighting for your i be lots of people fighting for your seat, stratford—upon—avon, but as he prepared to stand down, there are some questions about happened when you were removed from the government by rishi sunak, there are some questions you have never answered about, there was an independent report that said you had not been transparent enough about an investigation into your taxes by the hmrc. are you sorry about how you handle that? qt hmrc. are you sorry about how you handle that?— handle that? of course, and as i said it my _ handle that? of course, and as i said it my retirement _ handle that? of course, and as i said it my retirement letter, - handle that? of course, and as i said it my retirement letter, my| said it my retirement letter, my mistakes — said it my retirement letter, my mistakes are _ said it my retirement letter, my mistakes are my _ said it my retirement letter, my mistakes are my own. - said it my retirement letter, my mistakes are my own. i - said it my retirement letter, my mistakes are my own. i am - said it my retirement letter, my| mistakes are my own. i am sorry said it my retirement letter, my- mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when _ mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i _ mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i had _ mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i had my— mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i had my settlement _ mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i had my settlement with - mistakes are my own. i am sorry that when i had my settlement with hmrc two years _ when i had my settlement with hmrc two years ago. — when i had my settlement with hmrc two years ago. i— when i had my settlement with hmrc two years ago, i should _ when i had my settlement with hmrc two years ago, i should have - two years ago, i should have probably— two years ago, i should have probably been _ two years ago, i should have probably been more - two years ago, i should have probably been more explicitl two years ago, i should have i probably been more explicit in two years ago, i should have - probably been more explicit in the details _ probably been more explicit in the details in — probably been more explicit in the details in the _ probably been more explicit in the details in the ministerial- details in the ministerial declaration— details in the ministerial declaration as _ details in the ministerial declaration as to - details in the ministerial declaration as to how i details in the ministeriali declaration as to how the details in the ministerial— declaration as to how the settlement was arrived _ declaration as to how the settlement was arrived at — declaration as to how the settlement was arrived at. that _ declaration as to how the settlement was arrived at. that is _ declaration as to how the settlement was arrived at. that is my— declaration as to how the settlement was arrived at. that is my own - was arrived at. that is my own mistake — was arrived at. that is my own mistake. �* , ., was arrived at. that is my own mistake. �* ., , was arrived at. that is my own mistake. ., , ., was arrived at. that is my own mistake-— was arrived at. that is my own mistake. ., , ., ., mistake. are you ready to say now what ou mistake. are you ready to say now what you paid _ mistake. are you ready to say now what you paid a — mistake. are you ready to say now what you paid a penalty _ mistake. are you ready to say now what you paid a penalty to - mistake. are you ready to say now what you paid a penalty to the - what you paid a penalty to the taxman as a result and how much you paid, what happened? qt taxman as a result and how much you paid, what happened?— paid, what happened? of course, i deal with this — paid, what happened? of course, i deal with this in _ paid, what happened? of course, i deal with this in my _ paid, what happened? of course, i deal with this in my memoirs - paid, what happened? of course, i | deal with this in my memoirs which are coming — deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out— deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out in— deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out in august. -

deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out in august. you- deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out in august.— deal with this in my memoirs which are coming out in august. you can do it now. are coming out in august. you can do it now- hmrc— are coming out in august. you can do it now. hmrc found _ are coming out in august. you can do it now. hmrc found it _ are coming out in august. you can do it now. hmrc found it was _ it now. hmrc found it was non-deliberate, _ it now. hmrc found it was non-deliberate, there - it now. hmrc found it wasj non-deliberate, there was it now. hmrc found it was i non-deliberate, there was a it now. hmrc found it was _ non-deliberate, there was a careless non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake _ non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake they— non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake. they also _ non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake. they also accepted - non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake. they also accepted that - non—deliberate, there was a careless mistake. they also accepted that i i mistake. they also accepted that i was not _ mistake. they also accepted that i was not the — mistake. they also accepted that i was not the beneficiary _ mistake. they also accepted that i was not the beneficiary of - mistake. they also accepted that i was not the beneficiary of an - was not the beneficiary of an offshore _ was not the beneficiary of an offshore structure _ was not the beneficiary of an offshore structure or - was not the beneficiary of ani offshore structure or offshore was not the beneficiary of an - offshore structure or offshore trust but they— offshore structure or offshore trust but they thought _ offshore structure or offshore trust but they thought the _ offshore structure or offshore trustl but they thought the apportionment of shares _ but they thought the apportionment of shares when _ but they thought the apportionment of shares when it _ but they thought the apportionment of shares when it was _ but they thought the apportionment of shares when it was first - but they thought the apportionment of shares when it was first launched| of shares when it was first launched in yougov, — of shares when it was first launched in yougov, should _ of shares when it was first launched in yougov, should have _ of shares when it was first launched in yougov, should have had - of shares when it was first launched in yougov, should have had more i of shares when it was first launched| in yougov, should have had more of the shares _ in yougov, should have had more of the shares in — in yougov, should have had more of the shares in my— in yougov, should have had more of the shares in my name _ in yougov, should have had more of the shares in my name and - in yougov, should have had more of the shares in my name and as - in yougov, should have had more of the shares in my name and as it's. the shares in my name and as it's been _ the shares in my name and as it's been reported. _ the shares in my name and as it's been reported, the _ the shares in my name and as it's been reported, the total- the shares in my name and as it'sj been reported, the total payment the shares in my name and as it's. been reported, the total payment is 'ust been reported, the total payment is just shy— been reported, the total payment is just shy of— been reported, the total payment is just shy of £5— been reported, the total payment is just shy of £5 million. _ been reported, the total payment is just shy of £5 million. 50 _ been reported, the total payment is just shy of £5 million.— just shy of £5 million. so that is what ou just shy of £5 million. so that is what you paid. _ just shy of £5 million. so that is what you paid, nearly _ just shy of £5 million. so that is what you paid, nearly £5 - just shy of £5 million. so that is i what you paid, nearly £5 million? that is true. what you paid, nearly £5 million? that is true-— that is true. why did you have to -a a that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty _ that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty if _ that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty if it _ that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty if it was _ that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty if it was just - that is true. why did you have to pay a penalty if it wasjust a - pay a penalty if it was just a mistake? pay a penalty if it was 'ust a mistakesfi pay a penalty if it was 'ust a mistake? �* ., ., , ., ., pay a penalty if it was 'ust a mistake? �* ., ., ., , mistake? although it was found to be non-deliberate, _ mistake? although it was found to be non-deliberate, careless, _ mistake? although it was found to be non-deliberate, careless, there - mistake? although it was found to be non-deliberate, careless, there is- non—deliberate, careless, there is still a _ non—deliberate, careless, there is still a penalty— non—deliberate, careless, there is still a penalty attached _ non—deliberate, careless, there is still a penalty attached to - non—deliberate, careless, there is still a penalty attached to that, i still a penalty attached to that, which _ still a penalty attached to that, which i — still a penalty attached to that, which i accepted _ still a penalty attached to that, which i accepted fully. - still a penalty attached to that, which i accepted fully. i- still a penalty attached to that, l which i accepted fully. i accepted it by the — which i accepted fully. i accepted it by the way— which i accepted fully. i accepted it by the way because _ which i accepted fully. i accepted it by the way because i _ which i accepted fully. i accepted it by the way because i was - it by the way because i was chancellor— it by the way because i was chancellor of— it by the way because i was chancellor of the _ it by the way because i was. chancellor of the exchequer. it by the way because i was - chancellor of the exchequer. even if i chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted _ chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to— chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to push— chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to push back— chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to push back on _ chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to push back on this, - chancellor of the exchequer. even if i wanted to push back on this, i- i wanted to push back on this, i think— i wanted to push back on this, i think it — i wanted to push back on this, i think it would _ think it would have been a total abuse of— think it would have been a total abuse of power— think it would have been a total abuse of power if _ think it would have been a total abuse of power if i _ think it would have been a total abuse of power if i had - think it would have been a total abuse of power if i had done. i think it would have been a totall abuse of power if i had done. do think it would have been a total abuse of power if i had done. do you retret abuse of power if i had done. do you regret saying — abuse of power if i had done. do you regret saying journalists _ abuse of power if i had done. do you regret saying journalists were - regret saying journalists were smearing you when reporting that the

taxman was looking at your affairs? no, because the smears were so wide, things— no, because the smears were so wide, things like _ no, because the smears were so wide, things like the — no, because the smears were so wide, things like the national— no, because the smears were so wide, things like the national crime - things like the national crime agency, — things like the national crime agency, which— things like the national crime agency, which i_ things like the national crime agency, which i never, - things like the national crime agency, which i never, ever. things like the national crime i agency, which i never, ever had things like the national crime - agency, which i never, ever had any dealing _ agency, which i never, ever had any dealing web — agency, which i never, ever had any dealing web server— agency, which i never, ever had any dealing web server or— agency, which i never, ever had any dealing web server or any— dealing web server or any investigations— dealing web server or any investigations from... - dealing web server or anyj investigations from... but dealing web server or any investigations from... but you were beint investigations from... but you were being investigated _ investigations from... but you were being investigated by _ investigations from... but you were being investigated by the _ investigations from... but you were being investigated by the hmrc - investigations from... but you were | being investigated by the hmrc and it was reported and you said it was a smear? ., , .., , .,, ~ a smear? no, because it was linked to the national— a smear? no, because it was linked to the national crime _ a smear? no, because it was linked to the national crime agency - a smear? no, because it was linked to the national crime agency and i a smear? no, because it was linked i to the national crime agency and the sfo, to the national crime agency and the sfo. which _ to the national crime agency and the sfo. which i — to the national crime agency and the sfo, which i have _ to the national crime agency and the sfo, which i have never— to the national crime agency and the sfo, which i have never had - to the national crime agency and the sfo, which i have never had an - sfo, which i have never had an investigation _ sfo, which i have never had an investigation from. _ sfo, which i have never had an investigation from. when - sfo, which i have never had an investigation from. when you i sfo, which i have never had an l investigation from. when you are being _ investigation from. when you are being attacked _ investigation from. when you are being attacked in _ investigation from. when you are being attacked in that _ investigation from. when you are being attacked in that way, - investigation from. when you are being attacked in that way, upon| being attacked in that way, upon reflection. — being attacked in that way, upon reflection, again, _ being attacked in that way, upon reflection, again, i— being attacked in that way, upon reflection, again, i deal- being attacked in that way, upon reflection, again, ideal with - being attacked in that way, upon reflection, again, ideal with this in my— reflection, again, ideal with this in my memoirs, _ reflection, again, ideal with this in my memoirs, maybe - reflection, again, ideal with this in my memoirs, maybe i- reflection, again, ideal with this in my memoirs, maybe i shouldl reflection, again, ideal with this- in my memoirs, maybe i should have been _ in my memoirs, maybe i should have been more _ in my memoirs, maybe i should have been more clear— in my memoirs, maybe i should have been more clear in— in my memoirs, maybe i should have been more clear in my— in my memoirs, maybe i should have been more clear in my declarations l been more clear in my declarations as a minister— been more clear in my declarations as a minister that _ been more clear in my declarations as a minister that i— been more clear in my declarations as a minister that i was— been more clear in my declarations as a minister that i was under- as a minister that i was under investigation _ as a minister that i was under investigation by— as a minister that i was under investigation by hmrc - as a minister that i was under investigation by hmrc and i. as a minister that i was under- investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement— investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement with _ investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement with hmrc. _ investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement with hmrc. as- investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement with hmrc. as i- investigation by hmrc and i reached a settlement with hmrc. as i said, i a settlement with hmrc. as i said, non—deliberate _ a settlement with hmrc. as i said, non—deliberate and _ a settlement with hmrc. as i said, non—deliberate and a _ a settlement with hmrc. as i said, non—deliberate and a careless - non—deliberate and a careless offence — non—deliberate and a careless offence but _ non—deliberate and a careless offence but nevertheless, - non—deliberate and a careless offence but nevertheless, a i offence but nevertheless, a misdemeanour. _ offence but nevertheless, a misdemeanour. so - offence but nevertheless, a misdemeanour. so i- offence but nevertheless, a misdemeanour. so i accept| offence but nevertheless, a i misdemeanour. so i accept all offence but nevertheless, a - misdemeanour. so i accept all these things _ misdemeanour. so i accept all these things as _ misdemeanour. so i accept all these things as you. _ misdemeanour. so i accept all these things as you. i_ misdemeanour. so i accept all these things. as you, i think, _ misdemeanour. so i accept all these things. as you, i think, one - misdemeanour. so i accept all these things. as you, ithink, one has- misdemeanour. so i accept all these things. as you, i think, one has to i things. as you, ithink, one has to be life _ things. as you, ithink, one has to be life when— things. as you, ithink, one has to be life when you _ things. as you, ithink, one has to be life when you reflect. _ things. as you, ithink, one has to be life when you reflect. i- things. as you, ithink, one has to be life when you reflect. i have - be life when you reflect. i have been _ be life when you reflect. i have been very— be life when you reflect. i have been very lucky— be life when you reflect. i have been very lucky in _ be life when you reflect. i have been very lucky in life, -

be life when you reflect. i have been very lucky in life, i've - be life when you reflect. i havej been very lucky in life, i've had be life when you reflect. i have i been very lucky in life, i've had an extraordinary— been very lucky in life, i've had an extraordinary career. _ been very lucky in life, i've had an extraordinary career. as _ been very lucky in life, i've had an extraordinary career. as my - been very lucky in life, i've had an extraordinary career. as my book, been very lucky in life, i've had an i extraordinary career. as my book, a boy from _ extraordinary career. as my book, a boy from baghdad _ extraordinary career. as my book, a boy from baghdad who _ extraordinary career. as my book, a boy from baghdad who arrived - extraordinary career. as my book, a boy from baghdad who arrived in . boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, _ boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, 79. — boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, 79. not_ boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, 79. not a_ boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, 79, not a word _ boy from baghdad who arrived in 1978, 79, not a word of- boy from baghdad who arrived in| 1978, 79, not a word of english... boy from baghdad who arrived in l 1978, 79, not a word of english... i 1978, 79, not a word of english... wonder how you feel about a 1978, 79, not a word of english...” wonder how you feel about a party you are behind, particularly as a pollster, you have been on the conservative roller—coaster on the front line of it, do you worry about what you are leaving behind? lilo, front line of it, do you worry about what you are leaving behind? ma, i what you are leaving behind? no, i tell ou what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why- _ what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why- if— what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why. if you _ what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why. if you look _ what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why. if you look at - what you are leaving behind? no, i tell you why. if you look at what i tell you why. if you look at what rishi _ tell you why. if you look at what rishi sunak _ tell you why. if you look at what rishi sunak has _ tell you why. if you look at what rishi sunak has been _ tell you why. if you look at what rishi sunak has been able - tell you why. if you look at what rishi sunak has been able to- tell you why. if you look at what| rishi sunak has been able to do, tell you why. if you look at what - rishi sunak has been able to do, he took office — rishi sunak has been able to do, he took office when _ rishi sunak has been able to do, he took office when inflation _ rishi sunak has been able to do, he took office when inflation was - rishi sunak has been able to do, he took office when inflation was at - took office when inflation was at 1110 and — took office when inflation was at 1110 and is— took office when inflation was at 1110 and is now— took office when inflation was at 1110 and is nowjust_ took office when inflation was at 1110 and is nowjust over- took office when inflation was at 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. - took office when inflation was ati 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look— 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at _ 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at the — 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at the gdp _ 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at the gdp figures _ 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at the gdp figures that - 1110 and is nowjust over 3%. you look at the gdp figures that just i look at the gdp figures that just came _ look at the gdp figures that just came out, — look at the gdp figures that just came out, the _ look at the gdp figures that just came out, the british _ look at the gdp figures that just came out, the british economyi look at the gdp figures that just l came out, the british economy is going _ came out, the british economy is going gangbusters— came out, the british economy is going gangbusters according - came out, the british economy is going gangbusters according to l came out, the british economy is. going gangbusters according to the report _ going gangbusters according to the re ort. ., going gangbusters according to the reort. ., ., , ,, report. front page of the express. you look at _ report. front page of the express. you look at education, _ report. front page of the express. you look at education, the - you look at education, the department— you look at education, the department close - you look at education, the department close to - you look at education, the department close to my i you look at education, the - department close to my heart, the combihatioh— department close to my heart, the combination of— department close to my heart, the combination of phonics _ department close to my heart, the combination of phonics and - department close to my heart, the combination of phonics and of- department close to my heart, the . combination of phonics and of course the reforms — combination of phonics and of course the reforms to — combination of phonics and of course the reforms to the _ combination of phonics and of course the reforms to the academy- combination of phonics and of course| the reforms to the academy process, it's no— the reforms to the academy process, it's no accident— the reforms to the academy process, it's no accident that _ the reforms to the academy process, it's no accident that english - it's no accident that english students _ it's no accident that english students now— it's no accident that english students now are _ it's no accident that english students now are amongst i it's no accident that english i students now are amongst the it's no accident that english - students now are amongst the best readers _ students now are amongst the best readers in — students now are amongst the best readers in the — students now are amongst the best readers in the world, _ students now are amongst the best readers in the world, compared - students now are amongst the best readers in the world, compared to| readers in the world, compared to what _ readers in the world, compared to what is _ readers in the world, compared to what is happening _ readers in the world, compared to what is happening in _ readers in the world, compared to what is happening in scotland - readers in the world, compared to

what is happening in scotland or. what is happening in scotland or wales — what is happening in scotland or wales so — what is happening in scotland or wales. so people _ what is happening in scotland or wales. so people in— what is happening in scotland or wales. so people in at- what is happening in scotland or wales. so people in at the - what is happening in scotland or. wales. so people in at the general election— wales. so people in at the general election will— wales. so people in at the general election will be _ wales. so people in at the general election will be able _ wales. so people in at the general election will be able to _ wales. so people in at the general election will be able to see - wales. so people in at the general election will be able to see the - election will be able to see the difference _ election will be able to see the difference in _ election will be able to see the difference in policy. _ election will be able to see the difference in policy. i- election will be able to see the difference in policy. ithink- election will be able to see the| difference in policy. i think once they— difference in policy. i think once they begin — difference in policy. i think once they begin to _ difference in policy. i think once they begin to scrutinise - difference in policy. i think once they begin to scrutinise keir- they begin to scrutinise keir starmer, _ they begin to scrutinise keir starmer, and _ they begin to scrutinise keir starmer, and he's— they begin to scrutinise keir starmer, and he's made - they begin to scrutinise keirj starmer, and he's made too they begin to scrutinise keir- starmer, and he's made too many mistakes — starmer, and he's made too many mistakes recently— starmer, and he's made too many mistakes recently which _ starmer, and he's made too many mistakes recently which we - starmer, and he's made too many mistakes recently which we will i starmer, and he's made too many. mistakes recently which we will talk about, _ mistakes recently which we will talk about, one — mistakes recently which we will talk about, one was _ mistakes recently which we will talk about, one was the _ mistakes recently which we will talk about, one was the rwanda - mistakes recently which we will talk about, one was the rwanda vote . mistakes recently which we will talkj about, one was the rwanda vote rare about, one was the rwanda vote we will about, one was the rwanda vote east: will talk about, one was the rwanda vote will talk about that, maybe you about, one was the rwanda vote“ will talk about that, maybe you two won't let might have something in common about natalie elphicke. keir starmer has been more anaemic miles ahead in the polls for a long time but when you speak to his own top team privately, they are happy top team privately, they are happy to remind everyone it is not a done deal. they don't want anyone to take it from granted. —— for granted. the party lost votes last week because of the leadership's position on the middle east conflict. the decision to welcome tory defector natalie elphicke into the fold grabbed headlines but riled some labour mps. and there is a big meeting this week about the issues of workers' rights. some of the unions are concerned

that keir starmer is about to let them down. jonathan ashworth from the labour front bench is here. last week you told us you are notjust the attack dog but actually a pussycat. it is always nice to have you in the studio with as this morning. let's start on the middle east. zarah wants you to say the uk will stop selling arms to israel, will you? the situation in gaza continues to be horrific. tens of thousands of people lost their lives, including many women and children. i look on completely horrified, it's why i've been calling for an immediate ceasefire for some time. i want to see the humanitarian aid, the un aid, get in there and more of it get in there. of course, like everyone else, i want to see hostages released immediately. should the uk sto sellin: released immediately. should the uk stop selling arms _ released immediately. should the uk stop selling arms to _ released immediately. should the uk stop selling arms to israel? - released immediately. should the uk stop selling arms to israel? on - stop selling arms to israel? on rafah, stop selling arms to israel? on rafah. let _ stop selling arms to israel? qt rafah, let me be clear, a full stop selling arms to israel? q�*i rafah, let me be clear, a full scale offensive into rafah would be a catastrophe beyond description. 1.5

million people there, 600,000 children there and if that full—scale offensive goes ahead, i do not want to see british made weapons, components that are part of weapons, components that are part of weapons, used in that offensive. so weapons, used in that offensive. so we have both called for the legal advice is to be published, that is unprecedented but in the circumstances we think it should be published, but we do not think that those arms sales should go ahead if this desperately devastated rafah offensive is it taken up. if this desperately devastated rafah offensive is it taken up.— offensive is it taken up. if the rafah attack _ offensive is it taken up. if the rafah attack goes _ offensive is it taken up. if the rafah attack goes ahead, - offensive is it taken up. if the rafah attack goes ahead, no | offensive is it taken up. if the - rafah attack goes ahead, no more british... 1 rafah attack goes ahead, no more british... ., �* . ., , british... i don't want to see british... i don't want to see british weapons _ british... i don't want to see british weapons used - british... i don't want to see british weapons used in - british... i don't want to see british weapons used in that j british... i don't want to see - british weapons used in that rafah offensive. ~ . ., , ., british weapons used in that rafah offensive. ~ . ., british weapons used in that rafah offensive. . ., ., offensive. what would you say to the government — offensive. what would you say to the government that _ offensive. what would you say to the government that says, _ offensive. what would you say to the government that says, look, - offensive. what would you say to the government that says, look, we - offensive. what would you say to the | government that says, look, we have to stick to the way we do this, we have a strict process, david cameron said our british lawyers are already pointing out what the israeli forces are doing on the ground and as of right now, it can go ahead? look, we

want to see — right now, it can go ahead? look, we want to see the _ right now, it can go ahead? look, we want to see the legal _ right now, it can go ahead? look, we want to see the legal advice. - right now, it can go ahead? look, we want to see the legal advice. i - right now, it can go ahead? look, we want to see the legal advice. i do - want to see the legal advice. i do not understand the british government's position, given that in previous conflicts, both the david cameron government, gordon brown, margaret thatcher, have all made decisions around suspensions of arms sales. we need to see the legal advice. but yes, if that rafah offensive, it's going to be catastrophic, we have been warning it will be catastrophic for some time. indeed, when we brought a motion to parliament calling for a ceasefire, our motion also opposed a rafah offensive. parliament endorsed that motion, we all voted for it by acclamation, when we vote yes in favour for it. acclamation, when we vote yes in favourfor it. if acclamation, when we vote yes in favour for it. if that goes ahead, we we do not want to see british weapons used in it.— we we do not want to see british weapons used in it. the sunday times this morning — weapons used in it. the sunday times this morning reported _ weapons used in it. the sunday times this morning reported your _ weapons used in it. the sunday times this morning reported your new- weapons used in it. the sunday times this morning reported your new mp, l this morning reported your new mp, natalie elphicke, who last week joined your ranks, has been accused of lobbying that then justice secretary about her husband's court case. should that be investigated? she said it is nonsense, it is not

in her interpretation of events. i don't understand why the lord chancellor at the time did not raise it and why he is raising and others that she says it is not in her interpretation of that discussion. should it be investigated just to make sure it was all absolutely above board? either she is not telling the truth or robert buckland, who was thejustice secretary and lord chancellor, is not telling the truth? she secretary and lord chancellor, is not telling the truth?— not telling the truth? she said it is not her interpretation. - not telling the truth? she said it is not her interpretation. she i not telling the truth? she said it. is not her interpretation. she said it is nonsense. i was not there, you are not there. if robert buckland has got more to say on that, perhaps he should come out and offer his opinions and his reflections on it. i wonder if she was still a tory mp, i wonder if she was still a tory mp, i think a lot of our viewers might think the labour party would be shouting from the rooftops for an investigation, wouldn't you? itrefoil. investigation, wouldn't you? well, this didn't come _ investigation, wouldn't you? well, this didn't come out _ investigation, wouldn't you? well, this didn't come out at _ investigation, wouldn't you? well, this didn't come out at the - investigation, wouldn't you? well, this didn't come out at the time. l this didn't come out at the time. robert buckland, the tories didn't say anything. ads, robert buckland, the tories didn't say anything-— say anything. a lot of people in our say anything. a lot of people in your party _ say anything. a lot of people in your party are _ say anything. a lot of people in your party are rrot _ say anything. a lot of people in your party are not happy - say anything. a lot of people in your party are not happy she i say anything. a lot of people in | your party are not happy she has been welcomed into begin with and don't these allegations actually start to create a sense that may be

keir starmer and your labour leadership team have made an error ofjudgment? ihla. leadership team have made an error ofjudgment?— ofjudgment? no, no. ithink what natalie elphicke's _ ofjudgment? no, no. ithink what natalie elphicke's crossing - ofjudgment? no, no. ithink what natalie elphicke's crossing of - ofjudgment? no, no. ithink what natalie elphicke's crossing of the l natalie elphicke's crossing of the floor revealed is the extent to which we are witnessing a disintegrating and decaying conservative government. she moved away from the conservatives because she felt the government, the conservative government, had failed to support young people getting on the housing ladder. she moved away from them because she felt the conservative government had failed to bring order to our borders. if to bring order to our borders. if your new colleague is accused of trying to interfere again with a legal case, surely you should want to get to the bottom of that, to be completely sure? your colleague, their shadowjustice secretary, sat their shadow justice secretary, sat in their shadowjustice secretary, sat in that chair a couple of weeks ago and said it is high time that politicians respected properly the independence of the judiciary and it seems here your new colleague is accused of doing just the opposite? an accusation that she denies. you

are content — an accusation that she denies. you are content with _ an accusation that she denies. you are content with that? if _ an accusation that she denies. you are content with that? if robert . are content with that? if robert buckland has — are content with that? if robert buckland has evidence - are content with that? if robert buckland has evidence or - are content with that? if robert buckland has evidence or has i are content with that? if robert . buckland has evidence or has more are content with that? if robert - buckland has evidence or has more to say, then let's hear what he says. more broadly, what she has done, like thousands and thousands of conservatives across the country, she has shifted to the labour party because she can see that after ia years of failure that it is time for change. i am years of failure that it is time for change. lam not years of failure that it is time for change. i am not a tribal politician, you know that. i politician, you know that. really? i miaht politician, you know that. really? i might enjoy _ politician, you know that. really? i might enjoy a _ politician, you know that. really? i might enjoy a robust _ politician, you know that. really? i might enjoy a robust two _ politician, you know that. really? i might enjoy a robust two and - might enjoy a robust two and throwing in the studio but generally, i am throwing in the studio but generally, lam not throwing in the studio but generally, i am not a tribal guy. lots of my friends, my relatives, neighbours are conservatives and they are shifting to labour because they are shifting to labour because they know that after ia years it is time to change. they know there is a £a6 billion black hole in tory plans which means cuts to pensioners, cuts on the nhs or another borrowing bonanza and they know what more years of conservatives would mean. i years of conservatives would mean. i want to talk about a central part of labour's arthur, a big plan to give workers more rights in the workplace. —— offerfrom labour.

some of the unions are concerned that you are watering down your plans. that you are watering down your lans. ., that you are watering down your plans. ihla. i have some specific plans. no. i have some specific questions _ plans. tic. i have some specific questions. will there be, as some of them want, a complete ban on the practice of what is called fire and rehire? we have seen that happened at p and 0, the ferry operator, a complete ban in all circumstances? let me be clear, we are not watering down our commitment to give workers more rights in the workplace in order to make work pay. i will tell you why. 0ur labour market is increasingly characterised by low pay, increasingly characterised by low pay. tjy increasingly characterised by low pay, by zero—hours contracts, by an arrangement where you can get sacked and then be told to apply for your job the same day, fire and rehire, these are outrageous practices and it is not good for the uk economy. it is actually driving productivity down. giving people rights in the workplace means making work pay and driving productivity. fin workplace means making work pay and driving productivity.— driving productivity. on the point of fire and rehire, _ driving productivity. on the point of fire and rehire, will— driving productivity. on the point of fire and rehire, will you - driving productivity. on the point. of fire and rehire, will you commit to a complete ban on that practice?

in all circumstances? irate to a complete ban on that practice? in all circumstances?— to a complete ban on that practice? in all circumstances? we are getting rid of that practice, _ in all circumstances? we are getting rid of that practice, we _ in all circumstances? we are getting rid of that practice, we are _ in all circumstances? we are getting rid of that practice, we are not - rid of that practice, we are not watering down our commitment. we are banning it, not watering it down the stop we are giving workers' rights in the workplace to make work pay. let me make a quick point. leicester is famous for textiles and famous for our rag trade.— for our rag trade. your constituency. - for our rag trade. your constituency. in - for our rag trade. your constituency. in that i for our rag trade. your - constituency. in that sector, we have people _ constituency. in that sector, we have people who _ constituency. in that sector, we have people who get _ constituency. in that sector, we have people who get their - constituency. in that sector, we - have people who get their documents confiscated, paid below minimum wage, who get sacked with no notice, whose working conditions are diabolical and there is no way of enforcing decent standards in the labour market. that is not right. that has to change and that is good notjust that has to change and that is good not just for the workers, that has to change and that is good notjust for the workers, it is also good for the economy as well. what good for the economy as well. what about another _ good for the economy as well. what about another of _ good for the economy as well. what about another of the _ good for the economy as well. what about another of the specific proposals. you came up with the idea of switching off so people's bosses cannot harangue them and get in touch with them all times of day or night. will that be guaranteed as something that you will promise?

there are ways it's been put into place in other countries, i think ireland is ample from memory, apologies if anyone is social media space that is wrong because it's from memory, but there are ways in which it can be implemented in a perfectly sensible way which is both good for the workaround good for business. 50. good for the workaround good for business. ,, ., good for the workaround good for business. ., ., ., good for the workaround good for business. ., ,.,, , , ,, business. so, when union bosses like sharon graham _ business. so, when union bosses like sharon graham of _ business. so, when union bosses like sharon graham of unite _ business. so, when union bosses like sharon graham of unite says - business. so, when union bosses like sharon graham of unite says the - sharon graham of unite says the latest proposals are a row back on a robe rack and you are betraying commitments you made... ihla. robe rack and you are betraying commitments you made... no, no, we are auoin commitments you made... no, no, we are going to — commitments you made... no, no, we are going to deal— commitments you made... no, no, we are going to deal with _ commitments you made... no, no, we are going to deal with exploitative - are going to deal with exploitative practices, firing and rehiring, sick pay, one of the problems of the pandemic was people had to go to work when ill because we have inadequate sick pay of this country, so we'll deal with sick pay as well. these are important measures which will both make work pay for workers and is good for the economy as well. we'll see what happens with the meeting on tuesday, jonathan ashworth, thank you, it's good to have you in the studio.

in the last couple of weeks — and this morning — we've had a lot of important, heavy chat, but all politics, no play, makes sunday a dull day. so, hoping to win at the baftas tonight is the crown's dominic west — star of so many huge productions during his career, now about to appear on stage in the west end in london, in the lead in arthur miller's play a view from the bridge. we met during a gap in rehearsals yesterday. bea, he's taking herfor a ride. all right, that is her ride. what, are you going to stand over her till she's 40? all right, now watch out, danish. you're just jealous. of him?! boy, you don't think much of me. there'sjust so much in it that speaks to us now — from refugees to ideas about parenting, claustrophobic parenting or cross—generational affections. miller was, i think, during the war, he worked in the shipyards in brooklyn, which is where this is set or where my character works. and if you get one word out of sync, it doesn't —

the rhythm doesn't work, the sound is wrong and it's written like a piece of music and it's perfection, it really is. can you give us, then, a bit more of a flavour of the accent? is it hard to do? well, i could... yeah, i mean, what does he say? he says, you know... adopting brooklyn accent: you call that a spider? you ought to see what comes out of the bananas sometimes. i've seen spiders could stop a buick. in normal voice: great line. eddie, your character, he commits this terrible sin. in this community, he's sort of driven to do the unthinkable. the biggest possible crime is to snitch on refugees to the authorities. then the second half of the play, when eddie is driven to do that thing that he despises more than anything — to snitch — that's an amazing journey to take. you did, though, have some doubts about taking on this play again. yeah. but what was it that made you say yes? i mean, was it the resonance, maybe, with any of the issues that we're confronting as a society — notjust in this country,

but around the the rich world — migration, refugees, how we cope with these big shifts of people? yeah. yeah, ithink... yeah, i'm nervous about taking on a part like this because so many people have been great in it before. and very recently, i remember seeing michael gambon playing him, playing eddie carbone in whenever it was, in the '90s. i remember the way he said certain lines and i remember it so well. it was such an amazing performance. so i got to know him. i love him very much, and he died just as lindsay sent this text and i thought, oh, god. and it really brought his performance to mind and i thought, well, now he's moved on, i suppose someone else has got, you know... you know, ifelt, it was, the way was clear or in some way — i don't know — in some way, i felt it was a tribute to him or i don't know... ijust, i thought i'd try and pit myself against the great gambon, i suppose. it's interesting, though, you said that you felt a bit nervous about doing it. so dominic west still gets nervous? of course.

yeah, no, of course. i think it's... really?! oh, it gets it gets worse and worse the older you get, of course. yeah, i mean, you don't want to... you don't want to let down the cast. this cast is so amazing, you know, and with my leathery old brain, just even remembering all the lines is quite hard. they laugh. i have to ask you a little bit about the crown. obviously, it's up for a bafta this weekend. i don't want to go scouring and searching through the newspapers page after page for negative coverage of diana. i want positive coverage and mrs parker bowles to be glaringly, screamingly obvious. have i made myself clear? are you pleased that you took part in that? lam, yeah. i had an amazing experience. i was very, very cagey about taking it on. but the writing is so good and i had, the period of time i was playing charles

was so tumultuous and interesting. it was sort of impossible to turn it down. and, in the end, i think i think we we did some good work and hopefully we'll win! should any of it, though, have been off limits? you know, there was disquiet about some of the scenes in the episodes that you were in, even where prince charles, now the king, went to the morgue to go and identify the princess of wales. do you think or do you feel comfortable that none of their marital breakdown was essentially off limits in the series? um... well...| sort of have to leave that up to peter morgan. myjob was to bring life to the words that peter's put on the page. and, as such, i can't really be thinking about outside things. for me, he's a character — he's not... ..he's not really the guy —

he's not really the king. he's a character on the page for me and i play the scene that's written. you've played so many roles and had so much success. do you still have things on your list that you would particularly like to do? oh, yeah. when you get that text from the producer offering different possibilities, what would be on that list? i want to hit the big shakespeares mainly, you know. i'd love to play lear. eventually, i'll play lear. ijust — i think i can't really die without playing lear. and a bond villain would be good. a bond villain? yeah. not bond himself? well, i'm a bit long in the tooth, i think. really, are you sure? oh, well, you're very kind. don't you fancy it? i think even roger moore was younger than me. dominic, thank you so much for speaking to us today. thank you. it's been fascinating. thank you very much, indeed. thanks, laura. well, from the fictional portrayal of royal family to the reality. prince william's the patron of the baftas, where dominic west will be tonight. and tina has been chronicling

the royal story for years. you had more scoops about the royal family than anybody else. this week we've seen harry come to the uk and not see the king, all this tension there, what do you think is going on? i there, what do you think is going on? . ., , , ' on? i felt completely different, actuall , on? i felt completely different, actually. after _ on? i felt completely different, actually, after all _ on? i felt completely different, actually, after all the _ on? i felt completely different, actually, after all the trashing i on? i felt completely different, l actually, after all the trashing of harry— actually, after all the trashing of harry and — actually, after all the trashing of harry and there _ actually, after all the trashing of harry and there always - actually, after all the trashing of harry and there always is, - actually, after all the trashing of harry and there always is, trying actually, after all the trashing of. harry and there always is, trying to blame _ harry and there always is, trying to blame him. — harry and there always is, trying to blame him, actually— harry and there always is, trying to blame him, actually when - harry and there always is, trying to blame him, actually when i - harry and there always is, trying to blame him, actually when i saw- harry and there always is, trying to| blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan— blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in— blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in nigeria _ blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in nigeria i— blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in nigeria i had - blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in nigeria i had in- blame him, actually when i saw him at meghan in nigeria i had in the . at meghan in nigeria i had in the style _ at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh — at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh i— at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh. i felt, _ at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh. i felt, this _ at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh. i felt, this is - at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh. i felt, this is what - at meghan in nigeria i had in the style shh. i felt, this is what it. style shh. i felt, this is what it could — style shh. i felt, this is what it could have _ style shh. i felt, this is what it could have been, _ style shh. i felt, this is what it could have been, these - style shh. i felt, this is what it could have been, these two, l style shh. i felt, this is what it. could have been, these two, who style shh. i felt, this is what it- could have been, these two, who are enormously— could have been, these two, who are enormously appealing _ could have been, these two, who are enormously appealing to _ could have been, these two, who are enormously appealing to the - could have been, these two, who are enormously appealing to the public l enormously appealing to the public and who— enormously appealing to the public and who are — enormously appealing to the public and who are very— enormously appealing to the public and who are very good _ enormously appealing to the public and who are very good at _ enormously appealing to the public and who are very good at it, - enormously appealing to the public and who are very good at it, who i enormously appealing to the public. and who are very good at it, who are out there _ and who are very good at it, who are out there in— and who are very good at it, who are out there in nigeria _ and who are very good at it, who are out there in nigeria looking - and who are very good at it, who are out there in nigeria looking really. out there in nigeria looking really attractive — out there in nigeria looking really attractive and _ out there in nigeria looking really attractive and being _ out there in nigeria looking really attractive and being appealing - attractive and being appealing peopie — attractive and being appealing peopie and _ attractive and being appealing people and what _ attractive and being appealing people and what a _ attractive and being appealing people and what a pity - attractive and being appealing people and what a pity it - attractive and being appealing people and what a pity it is . attractive and being appealing - people and what a pity it is they've gone _ people and what a pity it is they've gone there — people and what a pity it is they've gone there is _ people and what a pity it is they've gone there is a _ people and what a pity it is they've gone. there is a harry— people and what a pity it is they've gone. there is a harry —shaped - people and what a pity it is they've. gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the _ gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the monarchy— gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the monarchy at _ gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the monarchy at this _ gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the monarchy at this time - gone. there is a harry —shaped hole in the monarchy at this time when . in the monarchy at this time when they are _ in the monarchy at this time when they are in — in the monarchy at this time when they are in such— in the monarchy at this time when they are in such beleaguered - they are in such beleaguered circumstances. _ they are in such beleaguered circumstances. do— they are in such beleaguered circumstances.— they are in such beleaguered circumstances. , ., ,, circumstances. do you think the rift is permanent? _ circumstances. do you think the rift is permanent? it _ circumstances. do you think the rift is permanent? it might _ circumstances. do you think the rift is permanent? it might be, - circumstances. do you think the rift| is permanent? it might be, because thins tend is permanent? it might be, because things tend to _ is permanent? it might be, because things tend to get _ is permanent? it might be, because things tend to get more _ is permanent? it might be, because things tend to get more and - is permanent? it might be, because things tend to get more and more i things tend to get more and more ossified, — things tend to get more and more ossified, iike _ things tend to get more and more ossified, like they— things tend to get more and more ossified, like they did _ things tend to get more and more ossified, like they did with - things tend to get more and more ossified, like they did with the - ossified, like they did with the windsors, _ ossified, like they did with the windsors, but— ossified, like they did with the windsors, but i— ossified, like they did with the windsors, but i think- ossified, like they did with the windsors, but i think we - ossified, like they did with the . windsors, but i think we needed harry— windsors, but i think we needed

harry and — windsors, but i think we needed harry and meghan _ windsors, but i think we needed harry and meghan and _ windsors, but i think we needed harry and meghan and i - windsors, but i think we needed harry and meghan and i think. harry and meghan and i think unfortunately— harry and meghan and i think unfortunately what's - harry and meghan and i think unfortunately what's come i harry and meghan and i think unfortunately what's come toj harry and meghan and i think- unfortunately what's come to pass with the _ unfortunately what's come to pass with the cancer— unfortunately what's come to pass with the cancer diagnosis - unfortunately what's come to pass with the cancer diagnosis and - unfortunately what's come to pass i with the cancer diagnosis and things shows— with the cancer diagnosis and things showsjust _ with the cancer diagnosis and things showsjust how— with the cancer diagnosis and things shows just how depleted _ with the cancer diagnosis and things shows just how depleted the - with the cancer diagnosis and things shows just how depleted the family| shows just how depleted the family is and _ shows just how depleted the family is and how— shows just how depleted the family is and how much _ shows just how depleted the family is and how much it _ shows just how depleted the family is and how much it needs— shows just how depleted the family is and how much it needs all- shows just how depleted the family is and how much it needs all its- is and how much it needs all its doll is and how much it needs all its doii warts. _ is and how much it needs all its doll warts, so _ is and how much it needs all its doll warts, so i'm _ is and how much it needs all its doll warts, so i'm hoping - is and how much it needs all its doll warts, so i'm hoping that i doll warts, so i'm hoping that doesn't — doll warts, so i'm hoping that doesn't happen, _ doll warts, so i'm hoping that doesn't happen, i— doll warts, so i'm hoping that doesn't happen, i hope - doll warts, so i'm hoping that doesn't happen, i hope it - doll warts, so i'm hoping thatl doesn't happen, i hope it does doll warts, so i'm hoping that - doesn't happen, i hope it does mend -- its _ doesn't happen, i hope it does mend -- its staiwarts _ doesn't happen, i hope it does mend -- its stalwarts.— -- its stalwarts. talking of rifts, how did you _ -- its stalwarts. talking of rifts, how did you hear, _ -- its stalwarts. talking of rifts, how did you hear, zarah, - -- its stalwarts. talking of rifts, how did you hear, zarah, that i how did you hear, zarah, that natalie elphicke was coming your way? i natalie elphicke was coming your wa ? ~ �* . natalie elphicke was coming your wa ? .. �* , ~ natalie elphicke was coming your wa ? ~ �* , . , ., , way? i think it's great when people are moving — way? i think it's great when people are moving towards _ way? i think it's great when people are moving towards the _ way? i think it's great when people are moving towards the labour - are moving towards the labour movement and the labour party. natalie elphicke, however, is an interesting one, because she is a former paid—up member of the erg, she voted for liz truss in the leadership, she is at odds when it comes to fire and rehire, have attacked trade unions and their activities, not great on the environment either, so unless she has had the biggest damascene conversion ever ijust don't buy it and it's concerning as well in terms of conversations i've had within the

hp, of conversations i've had within the plp, especially... the parliamentary labour party- _ plp, especially... the parliamentary labour party- the — plp, especially... the parliamentary labour party. the comments - plp, especially... the parliamentary labour party. the comments she's i labour party. the comments she's made about _ labour party. the comments she's made about her— labour party. the comments she's made about her ex-husband - labour party. the comments she's made about her ex-husband and i labour party. the comments she's i made about her ex-husband and the made about her ex—husband and the trial... made about her ex-husband and the trial... ., ., �* ~' made about her ex-husband and the trial... ., ., �* ,, �*, . trial... you don't think it's great. nadhim, trial... you don't think it's great. nadhim. what — trial... you don't think it's great. nadhim, what about _ trial... you don't think it's great. nadhim, what about you? - trial... you don't think it's great. | nadhim, what about you? getting trashed by her — nadhim, what about you? getting trashed by her own _ nadhim, what about you? getting trashed by her own mother, - nadhim, what about you? getting trashed by her own mother, in - nadhim, what about you? getting| trashed by her own mother, in the sunday— trashed by her own mother, in the sunday times, _ trashed by her own mother, in the sunday times, they— trashed by her own mother, in the sunday times, they broke - trashed by her own mother, in the sunday times, they broke the - sunday times, they broke the scoopm — sunday times, they broke the scoo - . .. , . sunday times, they broke the scoo... . ,._ scoop... he is a great story breaker- — scoop... he is a great story breaker. natalie _ scoop... he is a great story breaker. natalie elphicke, l scoop... he is a great story - breaker. natalie elphicke, which is auoin breaker. natalie elphicke, which is ttoin to breaker. natalie elphicke, which is going to be — breaker. natalie elphicke, which is going to be problematic, _ breaker. natalie elphicke, which is going to be problematic, that's - breaker. natalie elphicke, which is going to be problematic, that's my prediction, — going to be problematic, that's my prediction, my second prediction as he has _ prediction, my second prediction as he has made a mistake to vote against — he has made a mistake to vote against the rwanda bill and say he will get _ against the rwanda bill and say he will get rid of it if he were prime minister — will get rid of it if he were prime minister i— will get rid of it if he were prime minister. i suspect he will reverse that before the general election. realty? — that before the general election. reall ? . . , that before the general election. reall? . , i, what really? that is my prediction. what will ha- en really? that is my prediction. what will happen in _ really? that is my prediction. what will happen in the _ really? that is my prediction. what will happen in the labour— really? that is my prediction. what will happen in the labour party - really? that is my prediction. what will happen in the labour party if i will happen in the labour party if he does that? the will happen in the labour party if he does that?— he does that? the other issue amontst he does that? the other issue amongst the _ he does that? the other issue amongst the left _ he does that? the other issue amongst the left as _ he does that? the other issue amongst the left as well - he does that? the other issue amongst the left as well as i he does that? the other issuel amongst the left as well as the hypocrisy, we've got diane abbott whose case has been investigated for over a year and now we've got someone who's been enthusiastically embraced from the hard right of the conservative party. i don't think

that's a great look in terms of our progressive base and needs to be addressed. . progressive base and needs to be addressed-— addressed. therein lies keir 's problem- _ addressed. therein lies keir 's problem. this _ addressed. therein lies keir 's problem. this will _ addressed. therein lies keir 's problem. this will all - addressed. therein lies keir 's problem. this will all be - addressed. therein lies keir 's - problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person _ problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person who _ problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person who will— problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person who will get - problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person who will get it - problem. this will all be forgotten, the only person who will get it is i the only person who will get it is natalie _ the only person who will get it is natalie elphicke _ the only person who will get it is natalie elphicke and _ the only person who will get it is natalie elphicke and her- the only person who will get it is natalie elphicke and her dirty. natalie elphicke and her dirty laundry— natalie elphicke and her dirty laundry said _ natalie elphicke and her dirty laundry said gain. _ natalie elphicke and her dirty laundry said gain. natalie elphicke and her dirty laund said tain. , , laundry said gain. sometimes things start off seeming _ laundry said gain. sometimes things start off seeming like _ laundry said gain. sometimes things start off seeming like a _ laundry said gain. sometimes things start off seeming like a good - laundry said gain. sometimes things start off seeming like a good idea i start off seeming like a good idea but may be later on they weren't so smart, thank you all three of you. just before we go — eurovision was also about the songs and the sequins, notjust the protests outside. especially for nemo who won with their song the code. last night, just for us, that official national treasure, joanna lumley, who read out the uk points, kindly agreed to send her thoughts, in her own inimitable style. nobody does it better than you, sweden. so cheers, swedies. thanks a lot. you are absolutely fabulous. this is me letting my hair down after eurovision,

which was quite extraordinary — to have seen it from the announcer, as it were, point of view is quite... i can't tell you how complicated and how extreme the preparations are for this. i came in early this afternoon for a three hour rehearsal because you have to get everybody in line, you have to then link up all the countries, 36 countries, 25 countries, whatever it is. you've got to get all the presenters in place. you've got to go, "hello, are you there?" in your special language. you've got to hold up a piece of paper to say that you can hear them, all that, and then on your block and then come back. then you've got to do an afternoon show! so the rehearsal was recorded, then we come on to the evening, you mustn't drink a drop because you're going to be speaking and you're going to be representing our country. it's been fascinating. and to see the love and the work and the detail of all these performers going into it — i've loved it. i've talked too long for your show. laura, look, we love you — we respect and love you — but your show is a little bit dull compared to the eurovision. 0k, cheers, sweetie, thanks. i can't top that —

thank you tojoanna. thank you to my trio at the desk and to all of you for watching — there is lots of the coverage across the bbc too about what is happening in the middle east — a complicated and anxious situation, and not the only point of tension now — with our security creeping more and more into politics here at home. to be continued. we look forward to seeing you next sunday, same time, same place.

it's sunday, it's 10am. welcome to it's sunday, it's10am. welcome to politics north west. this morning... would stopping tenants buying their council homes mean more house—building? also on the programme... her inheritance was seized after she was over paid carer�*s allowance. now a whistle—blower says managers should have stepped in. this is how people have built up years and years of overpayments. at the very least, any convictions should be quashed. and the thousands of pounds of levelling—up funding spent on a chessboard near you.

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