hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. a new report is calling on the church of england to set up an investment fund of £1 billion to help repair the damage caused by its historic links to slavery. welcome back, and that is where we are going to start. the church of england has rejected a call to set aside £1 billion for a new fund that

would address its involvement in the transatlantic slave trade. an investigation last year found the church's financial arm, which in the 18th century was known as queen anne's bounty, had received funds linked to enslavement worth more than £1 billion in today's money. today, a group with oversight of the church's response said the £100 million that had been earmarked by the church to address the legacy of slavery was "not enough". the church said the funding that has been put aside should be considered a "seed investment" and would "grow over time". let's start with our panel on this in then an expert review. for 200 years, the church as been in denial about its role in this, but clearly there has been a change in the way organisations view this, that if you inherited wealth as a result of slavery, then you inherit the problem today. how do you feel about that? 501 the problem today. how do you feel about that? ~' the problem today. how do you feel about that? ~ ., . ~ ., about that? so i think acknowledging that there was _ about that? so i think acknowledging that there was a _ about that? so i think acknowledging that there was a problem _ about that? so i think acknowledging that there was a problem there -

that there was a problem there is really important, but i think then putting meaningful amounts, a meaningful dialogue and meaningful actual redress against the well this is actually very important. and the problem we have with the church of england is that they've actually got a larger font this a lot bigger than the1 billion, it's worth a larger font this a lot bigger than the 1 billion, it's worth actually 10.3 billion, and it's been used in the past to pay the salaries of clergy. that's a huge amount of money, and 100 million actually does not seem very big... 50 money, and 100 million actually does not seem very big. . ._ money, and 100 million actually does not seem very big. . .— not seem very big... so you don't bu the not seem very big... so you don't buy the argument _ not seem very big... so you don't buy the argument that _ not seem very big... so you don't buy the argument that this - not seem very big... so you don't| buy the argument that this is seed money and it will grow into a much bigger pot? in money and it will grow into a much bigger pot?— money and it will grow into a much bier ot? . ., . bigger pot? in the current economic, or --eole bigger pot? in the current economic, or peeple are — bigger pot? in the current economic, or people are struggling _ bigger pot? in the current economic, or people are struggling to _ bigger pot? in the current economic, or people are struggling to put - or people are struggling to put money in anything, frankly, it feels a bit mean to think that there are other people who were going to come along and put money in as well. it probably will grow over time. it's seen as a process of reconciliation over time and creating a sort of amalgamation of all the people within the church of england who have been affected and who want to

take that process of healing, but the important thing i think is to do something that is actually meaningful and 1 million does not even start that process. but meaningful and1 million does not even start that process.— even start that process. but as i sa , it's even start that process. but as i say, it's organisations _ even start that process. but as i say, it's organisations that - even start that process. but as i say, it's organisations that are l even start that process. but as i i say, it's organisations that are now starting to look at this on an individual basis. we look at the federal level, injoe biden is talked about this, the problem always becomes in america who pays for it? to the taxpayers be paying for it? to the taxpayers be paying for it? to the taxpayers be paying for it when they were not alive when slavery was around? and also who does it go to? where do you stand on that? ., �* , ~ does it go to? where do you stand on that? . �*, ,, �*, that? that's right. i think it's tricky for _ that? that's right. i think it's tricky for me _ that? that's right. i think it's tricky for me here _ that? that's right. i think it's tricky for me here on - that? that's right. i think it's tricky for me here on this - that? that's right. | think it's | tricky for me here on this show that? that's right. | think it's - tricky for me here on this show as an american— tricky for me here on this show as an american with our own deeply troubling. — an american with our own deeply troubling, complicated struggle that we have _ troubling, complicated struggle that we have trying to deal with this issue _ we have trying to deal with this issue to — we have trying to deal with this issue to weigh in on what the church of england _ issue to weigh in on what the church of england is trying to do. i mean, certainly— of england is trying to do. i mean, certainly in — of england is trying to do. i mean, certainly in our country, back in 2021. _ certainly in our country, back in 2021, there _ certainly in our country, back in 2021, there was house resolution 40 that was— 2021, there was house resolution 40 that was introduced by one of our

representatives that did not go anywhere. it is so tricky, i don't think— anywhere. it is so tricky, i don't think i_ anywhere. it is so tricky, i don't think i have _ anywhere. it is so tricky, i don't think i have any light to shed on it. think i have any light to shed on it the _ think i have any light to shed on it. the tricky it probably is not even — it. the tricky it probably is not even the — it. the tricky it probably is not even the wrong word but to your point, what is the right number and think— point, what is the right number and think about — point, what is the right number and think about in the country at the size of— think about in the country at the size of the — think about in the country at the size of the us in the 200 years of enslavement, how do use to articulate _ enslavement, how do use to articulate the right number and then who are _ articulate the right number and then who are the right recipients? i have very little _ who are the right recipients? i have very little light to shine, although watching — very little light to shine, although watching and learning about this smaller— watching and learning about this smaller effort, anything that can be done to— smaller effort, anything that can be done to show what are the right patterns. — done to show what are the right patterns, as she said, of meaningful progress _ patterns, as she said, of meaningful progress if— patterns, as she said, of meaningful progress if any on this subject, that will— progress if any on this subject, that will help. progress if any on this sub'ect, that will helpfi that will help. let's get a view on it, shall be? _ let's speak to arley gill, chairman of grenada's national reparations commission. thank you very much coming on the programme. on this particular issue with regard to the church, just a scale of reparations matter or is it the very fact that the church is

addressing its historic role, is that sufficient?— that sufficient? no, it's not sufficient. _ that sufficient? no, it's not sufficient, but _ that sufficient? no, it's not sufficient, but definitely . that sufficient? no, it's not - sufficient, but definitely believing a step _ sufficient, but definitely believing a step in — sufficient, but definitely believing a step in the _ sufficient, but definitely believing a step in the right _ sufficient, but definitely believing a step in the right direction - sufficient, but definitely believing a step in the right direction that. a step in the right direction that the church— a step in the right direction that the church in— a step in the right direction that the church in the _ a step in the right direction that the church in the first _ a step in the right direction that the church in the first place - a step in the right direction that. the church in the first place would acknowledge _ the church in the first place would acknowledge that _ the church in the first place would acknowledge that it _ the church in the first place would acknowledge that it profited - acknowledge that it profited massively _ acknowledge that it profited massively from _ acknowledge that it profited massively from the - acknowledge that it profited - massively from the trans—atlantic slave _ massively from the trans—atlantic slave trade — massively from the trans—atlantic slave trade and _ massively from the trans—atlantic slave trade and slavery. - massively from the trans—atlantic slave trade and slavery. and - massively from the trans—atlantic slave trade and slavery. and that| massively from the trans—atlantic. slave trade and slavery. and that it must _ slave trade and slavery. and that it must make — slave trade and slavery. and that it must make amends— slave trade and slavery. and that it must make amends for— slave trade and slavery. and that it must make amends for the - slave trade and slavery. and that it must make amends for the harm . must make amends for the harm that was cost _ must make amends for the harm that was cost to— must make amends for the harm that was cost to the — must make amends for the harm that was cost to the societies _ must make amends for the harm that was cost to the societies in _ must make amends for the harm that was cost to the societies in the - was cost to the societies in the peoples — was cost to the societies in the peoples that _ was cost to the societies in the peoples that is _ was cost to the societies in the peoples that is suffered - was cost to the societies in the peoples that is suffered from l was cost to the societies in the i peoples that is suffered from its investment— peoples that is suffered from its investment that _ peoples that is suffered from its investment that it _ peoples that is suffered from its investment that it made - peoples that is suffered from its investment that it made in- peoples that is suffered from its investment that it made in the l investment that it made in the trance — investment that it made in the trance limits— investment that it made in the trance limits slavery— investment that it made in the trance limits slavery and - investment that it made in the trance limits slavery and slave j trance limits slavery and slave trade — trance limits slavery and slave trade let _ trance limits slavery and slave trade let it— trance limits slavery and slave trade. let it be _ trance limits slavery and slave trade. let it be absolutely- trance limits slavery and slave . trade. let it be absolutely clear. we believe — trade. let it be absolutely clear. we believe that _ trade. let it be absolutely clear. we believe that the _ trade. let it be absolutely clear. we believe that the church - trade. let it be absolutely clear. we believe that the church of i we believe that the church of england — we believe that the church of england cannot _ we believe that the church of england cannot be _ we believe that the church of england cannot be the - we believe that the church of england cannot be the judgel we believe that the church of i england cannot be the judge and we believe that the church of - england cannot be the judge and jury in its own— england cannot be the judge and jury in its own case — england cannot be the judge and jury in its own case. the _ england cannot be the judge and jury in its own case. the church _ in its own case. the church of england — in its own case. the church of england cannot _ in its own case. the church of england cannot decide - in its own case. the church of england cannot decide on- in its own case. the church of england cannot decide on itsl in its own case. the church of. england cannot decide on its own in its own case. the church of- england cannot decide on its own or by its _ england cannot decide on its own or by its own— england cannot decide on its own or by its own appointing _ england cannot decide on its own or by its own appointing of— england cannot decide on its own or by its own appointing of an - by its own appointing of an oversight— by its own appointing of an oversight committee - by its own appointing of an oversight committee as i by its own appointing of an oversight committee as to| by its own appointing of an i oversight committee as to how by its own appointing of an - oversight committee as to how much nronies— oversight committee as to how much monies that — oversight committee as to how much monies that it — oversight committee as to how much monies that it thinks _ oversight committee as to how much monies that it thinks it _ oversight committee as to how much monies that it thinks it believes, i monies that it thinks it believes, whether— monies that it thinks it believes, whether it's _ monies that it thinks it believes, whether it's seed _ monies that it thinks it believes, whether it's seed money - monies that it thinks it believes, whether it's seed money or- monies that it thinks it believes, whether it's seed money or not, | whether it's seed money or not, should _ whether it's seed money or not, should be — whether it's seed money or not, should be sufficient— whether it's seed money or not, should be sufficient to - whether it's seed money or not, should be sufficient to make i whether it's seed money or not, i should be sufficient to make repair. we are _ should be sufficient to make repair. we are of— should be sufficient to make repair. we are of the — should be sufficient to make repair. we are of the considered _ should be sufficient to make repair. we are of the considered view- should be sufficient to make repair. we are of the considered view thatl we are of the considered view that the church— we are of the considered view that the church england _ we are of the considered view that

the church england must - we are of the considered view that the church england must engage l we are of the considered view that| the church england must engage in the church england must engage in the representatives _ the church england must engage in the representatives of _ the church england must engage in the representatives of the - the representatives of the reparations _ the representatives of the reparations movement- the representatives of the l reparations movement from the representatives of the i reparations movement from the societies— reparations movement from the societies where _ reparations movement from the societies where they _ reparations movement from the societies where they have - reparations movement from the i societies where they have profited, in other— societies where they have profited, in other words _ societies where they have profited, in other words we _ societies where they have profited, in other words we in— societies where they have profited, in other words we in the _ societies where they have profited, in other words we in the caribbeanl in other words we in the caribbean have _ in other words we in the caribbean have the _ in other words we in the caribbean have the caribbean _ in other words we in the caribbean have the caribbean reparations i have the caribbean reparations commission— have the caribbean reparations commission and _ have the caribbean reparations commission and we _ have the caribbean reparations commission and we believe i have the caribbean reparationsl commission and we believe that have the caribbean reparations i commission and we believe that the church— commission and we believe that the church of— commission and we believe that the church of england _ commission and we believe that the church of england must _ commission and we believe that the church of england must have - church of england must have an engagement— church of england must have an engagement with _ church of england must have an engagement with reparations i engagement with reparations commissions _ engagement with reparations commissions to— engagement with reparations commissions to find - engagement with reparations commissions to find out i engagement with reparations commissions to find out howl engagement with reparations i commissions to find out how best engagement with reparations - commissions to find out how best it can make _ commissions to find out how best it can make reparative _ commissions to find out how best it can make reparative justice - commissions to find out how best it can make reparative justice to- commissions to find out how best it can make reparative justice to us. can make reparative justice to us here _ can make reparative justice to us here in— can make reparative justice to us here in the — can make reparative justice to us here in the caribbean _ can make reparative justice to us here in the caribbean and - can make reparative justice to us here in the caribbean and for- can make reparative justice to us here in the caribbean and for the descendants— here in the caribbean and for the descendents of— here in the caribbean and for the descendents of the _ here in the caribbean and for the descendents of the enslaved i here in the caribbean and for the i descendents of the enslaved people who have _ descendents of the enslaved people who have suffered _ descendents of the enslaved people who have suffered at _ descendents of the enslaved people who have suffered at the _ descendents of the enslaved people who have suffered at the expense . descendents of the enslaved people| who have suffered at the expense of the prophets — who have suffered at the expense of the prophets that— who have suffered at the expense of the prophets that was _ who have suffered at the expense of the prophets that was garnered i who have suffered at the expense of the prophets that was garnered by l the prophets that was garnered by the prophets that was garnered by the church— the prophets that was garnered by the church of— the prophets that was garnered by the church of england. _ the prophets that was garnered by the church of england. therefore i the prophets that was garnered by l the church of england. therefore we believe _ the church of england. therefore we believe we _ the church of england. therefore we believe we outlined _ the church of england. therefore we believe we outlined the _ the church of england. therefore we believe we outlined the plan... i the church of england. therefore we believe we outlined the plan... justl believe we outlined the plan... just interru -t believe we outlined the plan... just interrupt you _ believe we outlined the plan... interrupt you for a second because it's an important issue, this, is the church wants to be, wants to decide at what pace it spends the money and who receives the money, so was talking about giving money to entrepreneurs, to african—american

entrepreneurs, to african—american entrepreneurs, the people who have particular projects that benefit black people in society. it is not talking about giving the money to government grants or to government institutions. stand government grants or to government institutions. �* ., �* , government grants or to government institutions. �* . �* , ., government grants or to government institutions. �* . �*, ., institutions. and that's a point also the church _ institutions. and that's a point also the church of— institutions. and that's a point also the church of england i institutions. and that's a point i also the church of england cannot decide _ also the church of england cannot decide how— also the church of england cannot decide how much _ also the church of england cannot decide how much money- also the church of england cannot decide how much money that i also the church of england cannot decide how much money that it i also the church of england cannot i decide how much money that it must make _ decide how much money that it must make available — decide how much money that it must make available for— decide how much money that it must make available for reparative - make available for reparative justice. — make available for reparative justice. how— make available for reparative justice, how this _ make available for reparative justice, how this money- make available for reparative l justice, how this money should make available for reparative i justice, how this money should be spent _ justice, how this money should be spent and — justice, how this money should be spent and who _ justice, how this money should be spent and who should _ justice, how this money should be spent and who should spend i justice, how this money should be spent and who should spend this i spent and who should spend this money — spent and who should spend this money it— spent and who should spend this money. it means _ spent and who should spend this money. it means that _ spent and who should spend this money. it means that the - spent and who should spend thisj money. it means that the church spent and who should spend this i money. it means that the church of england _ money. it means that the church of england in— money. it means that the church of england in its— money. it means that the church of england in its own _ money. it means that the church of england in its own cases— money. it means that the church of england in its own casesjudge, i money. it means that the church ofj england in its own casesjudge, jury and executioner, _ england in its own casesjudge, jury and executioner, and _ england in its own casesjudge, jury and executioner, and that - england in its own casesjudge, jury and executioner, and that is - england in its own casesjudge, jury and executioner, and that is we i and executioner, and that is we in the caribbean— and executioner, and that is we in the caribbean believe _ and executioner, and that is we in the caribbean believe that - and executioner, and that is we in the caribbean believe that a i and executioner, and that is we in the caribbean believe that a ten . the caribbean believe that a ten point _ the caribbean believe that a ten point plan — the caribbean believe that a ten point plan affords _ the caribbean believe that a ten point plan affords a _ the caribbean believe that a ten point plan affords a guideline i the caribbean believe that a ten . point plan affords a guideline with regards _ point plan affords a guideline with regards to— point plan affords a guideline with regards to how— point plan affords a guideline with regards to how it _ point plan affords a guideline with regards to how it reparative - point plan affords a guideline with| regards to how it reparative justice can be _ regards to how it reparative justice can be done. — regards to how it reparative justice can be done, because _ regards to how it reparative justice can be done, because the - regards to how it reparative justice can be done, because the legaciesj regards to how it reparative justice . can be done, because the legacies of slavery— can be done, because the legacies of slavery in _ can be done, because the legacies of slavery in the — can be done, because the legacies of slavery in the slave _ can be done, because the legacies of slavery in the slave trade _ can be done, because the legacies of slavery in the slave trade is - can be done, because the legacies of slavery in the slave trade is here i slavery in the slave trade is here in the _ slavery in the slave trade is here in the caribbean, _ slavery in the slave trade is here in the caribbean, which - slavery in the slave trade is here in the caribbean, which basicallyj slavery in the slave trade is here . in the caribbean, which basically is the scene — in the caribbean, which basically is the scene of— in the caribbean, which basically is the scene of the _ in the caribbean, which basically is the scene of the crime, _ in the caribbean, which basically is the scene of the crime, and - in the caribbean, which basically is the scene of the crime, and we i in the caribbean, which basically isj the scene of the crime, and we are looking _ the scene of the crime, and we are looking for— the scene of the crime, and we are looking for investments _ the scene of the crime, and we are looking for investments in - the scene of the crime, and we are looking for investments in health l looking for investments in health care and — looking for investments in health care and education— looking for investments in health care and education and _ looking for investments in health care and education and so- looking for investments in health care and education and so on. i looking for investments in health care and education and so on. so they— care and education and so on. so they cannot — care and education and so on. so they cannot decide _ care and education and so on. so they cannot decide it's _ care and education and so on. so they cannot decide it's not - care and education and so on. so they cannot decide it's not givenl care and education and so on. so l they cannot decide it's not given to governments. _ they cannot decide it's not given to governments. yet _ they cannot decide it's not given to governments, yet the _ they cannot decide it's not given to governments, yet the site - they cannot decide it's not given to governments, yet the site is- they cannot decide it's not given to governments, yet the site is not. governments, yet the site is not given— governments, yet the site is not given institutions _ governments, yet the site is not given institutions here _ governments, yet the site is not given institutions here in- governments, yet the site is not given institutions here in the i given institutions here in the caribbean— given institutions here in the caribbean and— given institutions here in the caribbean and so _ given institutions here in the caribbean and so on- given institutions here in the caribbean and so on and i given institutions here in the| caribbean and so on and that given institutions here in the . caribbean and so on and that it given institutions here in the - caribbean and so on and that it will decide to _

caribbean and so on and that it will decide to give _ caribbean and so on and that it will decide to give to _ caribbean and so on and that it will decide to give to entrepreneurs - caribbean and so on and that it willl decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever— decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever else — decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever else it _ decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever else it finds _ decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever else it finds allies... - decide to give to entrepreneurs and wherever else it finds allies... howl wherever else it finds allies... how does the influence _ wherever else it finds allies... how does the influence of _ wherever else it finds allies... does the influence of the wherever else it finds allies...- does the influence of the decisions? you just heard from matthew what a divisive issue this is in america. it's a very tricky subject the people have brought up in congress, but it's really gone nowhere. does it push other countries to start looking at this to reopen the debate? ~ . ., , ., debate? well, what i hope it will do is to ush debate? well, what i hope it will do is to push the government - debate? well, what i hope it will do is to push the government of - is to push the government of england to come _ is to push the government of england to come on— is to push the government of england to come on board _ is to push the government of england to come on board and _ is to push the government of england to come on board and other— to come on board and other institutions— to come on board and other institutions is— to come on board and other institutions is what - to come on board and other institutions is what the - to come on board and other| institutions is what the bank to come on board and other. institutions is what the bank of england — institutions is what the bank of england so_ institutions is what the bank of england so it _ institutions is what the bank of england so it will— institutions is what the bank of england so it will be _ institutions is what the bank of england so it will be coming i institutions is what the bank of. england so it will be coming from the church— england so it will be coming from the church of— england so it will be coming from the church of england _ england so it will be coming from the church of england despite - england so it will be coming from the church of england despite all| the church of england despite all of the church of england despite all of the witnesses — the church of england despite all of the witnesses in _ the church of england despite all of the witnesses in his— the church of england despite all of the witnesses in his procedure - the church of england despite all of the witnesses in his procedure andi the witnesses in his procedure and how it _ the witnesses in his procedure and how it is _ the witnesses in his procedure and how it is going _ the witnesses in his procedure and how it is going about _ the witnesses in his procedure and how it is going about this - the witnesses in his procedure and how it is going about this issue - the witnesses in his procedure and how it is going about this issue ofi how it is going about this issue of reparations, _ how it is going about this issue of reparations, we _ how it is going about this issue of reparations, we hope _ how it is going about this issue of reparations, we hope the - how it is going about this issue of reparations, we hope the first - reparations, we hope the first of all the _ reparations, we hope the first of all the church— reparations, we hope the first of all the church of— reparations, we hope the first of all the church of england - reparations, we hope the first of all the church of england will - all the church of england will listen — all the church of england will listen to— all the church of england will listen to us— all the church of england will listen to us in— all the church of england will listen to us in the _ all the church of england will listen to us in the caribbeani all the church of england will i listen to us in the caribbean and all the church of england will - listen to us in the caribbean and we have ireen— listen to us in the caribbean and we have been with _ listen to us in the caribbean and we have been with the _ listen to us in the caribbean and we have been with the greatest - have been with the greatest of respect — have been with the greatest of respect part— have been with the greatest of respect part of— have been with the greatest of respect part of the _ have been with the greatest of respect part of the foremost . respect part of the foremost leadership— respect part of the foremost leadership of— respect part of the foremost leadership of the _ respect part of the foremost leadership of the issue - respect part of the foremost leadership of the issue of i leadership of the issue of reparations, _ leadership of the issue of reparations, but - leadership of the issue of reparations, but also - leadership of the issue of. reparations, but also other institutions— reparations, but also other institutions and _ reparations, but also other. institutions and governments throughout— institutions and governments throughout europe _ institutions and governments throughout europe who - institutions and governments throughout europe who have| institutions and governments - throughout europe who have profited from the _ throughout europe who have profited

from the atlantic— throughout europe who have profited from the atlantic slave _ throughout europe who have profited from the atlantic slave trade, - throughout europe who have profited from the atlantic slave trade, we - from the atlantic slave trade, we believe _ from the atlantic slave trade, we believe that _ from the atlantic slave trade, we believe that the _ from the atlantic slave trade, we believe that the church _ from the atlantic slave trade, we believe that the church of - from the atlantic slave trade, we . believe that the church of england, one of— believe that the church of england, one of its _ believe that the church of england, one of its maintenance _ believe that the church of england, one of its maintenance of- one of its maintenance of christianity— one of its maintenance of christianity is— one of its maintenance of christianity is to - one of its maintenance of christianity is to ask- one of its maintenance of christianity is to ask for. christianity is to ask for forgiveness _ christianity is to ask for forgiveness for- christianity is to ask for forgiveness for sins - christianity is to ask for| forgiveness for sins and christianity is to ask for- forgiveness for sins and so, that christianity is to ask for— forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be _ forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be to— forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be to put— forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be to put pressure _ forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be to put pressure on- forgiveness for sins and so, that it will be to put pressure on the - will be to put pressure on the members— will be to put pressure on the members of— will be to put pressure on the members of parliament - will be to put pressure on the members of parliament in - will be to put pressure on the| members of parliament in the will be to put pressure on the - members of parliament in the uk, the prime minister— members of parliament in the uk, the prime ministerand_ members of parliament in the uk, the prime minister and also _ members of parliament in the uk, the prime minister and also the _ members of parliament in the uk, the prime minister and also the monarch. prime minister and also the monarch of inland _ prime minister and also the monarch of inland to— prime minister and also the monarch of inland to come _ prime minister and also the monarch of inland to come on— prime minister and also the monarch of inland to come on board _ prime minister and also the monarch of inland to come on board and - prime minister and also the monarch of inland to come on board and to. of inland to come on board and to deal with— of inland to come on board and to deal with this _ of inland to come on board and to deal with this issue _ of inland to come on board and to deal with this issue of— of inland to come on board and tol deal with this issue of reparations. thank— deal with this issue of reparations. thank you — deal with this issue of reparations. thank you very _ deal with this issue of reparations. thank you very much _ deal with this issue of reparations. thank you very much indeed - deal with this issue of reparations. thank you very much indeed for. deal with this issue of reparations. . thank you very much indeed for that, good to talk to you and gives us a full view of the issues at stake here. matthew, pick up on that. you heard there from him that it's much more than slavery itself, its the problems that flowed from it. he would cite systemic racism and other forms of discrimination that followed. they have a lot of work and this is the money that could go towards tackling some of those deep—seated issues in the united states. deep-seated issues in the united states. ~ , deep-seated issues in the united states. , , , , deep-seated issues in the united states. , , . states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think what — states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think what you _ states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think what you were _ states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think what you were seeing -

states. absolutely. absolutely, and i think what you were seeing right l i think what you were seeing right now in— i think what you were seeing right now in my— i think what you were seeing right now in my country is, we refer to it for lack— now in my country is, we refer to it for lack of— now in my country is, we refer to it for lack of a — now in my country is, we refer to it for lack of a better phrase as the ratio _ for lack of a better phrase as the ratio picketing in the wake of the murder— ratio picketing in the wake of the murder of— ratio picketing in the wake of the murder of george floyd and breonna taylor— murder of george floyd and breonna taylor and _ murder of george floyd and breonna taylor and my adopted home city of louisville _ taylor and my adopted home city of louisville amongst others, this renewed — louisville amongst others, this renewed national discussion like many— renewed national discussion like many things in our country it got into sort— many things in our country it got into sort of— many things in our country it got into sort of the trench warfare of our party — into sort of the trench warfare of our party system and now you see this reaction, sort of anti—woke to -ive this reaction, sort of anti—woke to give it— this reaction, sort of anti—woke to give it a _ this reaction, sort of anti—woke to give it a name, which is not quite fair also — give it a name, which is not quite fair also but _ give it a name, which is not quite fair also but anyway that's now yet another _ fair also but anyway that's now yet another thing people have their minds — another thing people have their minds made up in advance and arts of sguaring _ minds made up in advance and arts of sguaring off— minds made up in advance and arts of squaring off against each other. and i squaring off against each other. and i think is— squaring off against each other. and i think is needed is new ways of trying _ i think is needed is new ways of trying to— i think is needed is new ways of trying to resolve this struggle, and i trying to resolve this struggle, and i don't _ trying to resolve this struggle, and i don't know what they are. but as i said and i_ i don't know what they are. but as i said and i think your guest try to be constructive, frustrated at the process, — be constructive, frustrated at the process, but also appreciative that at least _ process, but also appreciative that at least something is happening. final— at least something is happening. final word. at least something is happening. finalword. interesting at least something is happening.

final word. interesting their people and especially on the right to say this is history, it should be left in the past. if we open this from their perspective pandora's box you will be spending billions and billions of taxpayers money and in? i think the problem is it is not in the past. that's the most important thing. we are left with a legacy of slavery, the means of people still are just on the colour of their skin and that means that there is an issue that still needs to be dealt with. we still have a legacy of slavery, and i think, yes, it may cost money, but is it not say that we are still having this debate is the only way of sorting this out is through reparations? which we talking about reconciliation as well and the church of england can actually take a leadership role in all of that by starting that healing process because after all, that's meant to be central to christian theology will stop some really important points from him and thanks to him for that.—

to him for that. let's move on. the former head _ to him for that. let's move on. the former head of _ to him for that. let's move on. the former head of the _ to him for that. let's move on. the former head of the cia _ former head of the cia counterterrorism... the former head of th counterterrorism. .. e cia's counterterrorism center, rob dannenberg has written an open letter to the speaker of the house mikejohnson urging him to put the ukraine bill on the floor. a spending package that includes $60 billion in mostly military aid for ukraine has yet to put to a vote, at a time when the ukrainians are having to ration dwindling supplies. in his letter, mr dannenberg said we are now at an inflection point in history. quite an extraordinary intervention by someone who is very senior in the cia, but it speaks of the pressure that mikejohnson is coming under now in a very important week, because looking at a park shut down of the government later this week and some really important votes to

come to the floor. it and some really important votes to come to the floor.— come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he — come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he does _ come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he does a _ come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he does a good _ come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he does a good job - come to the floor. it does. i mean, i think he does a good job outlining the global— i think he does a good job outlining the global states and with the ukrainian people have been dealing with. ukrainian people have been dealing with yes. — ukrainian people have been dealing with. yes, two years since the invasion, _ with. yes, two years since the invasion, but ten years of aggression. the stakes, i think, invasion, but ten years of aggression. the stakes, ithink, an american _ aggression. the stakes, ithink, an american leadership and european and british— american leadership and european and british leadership in this area are crucial _ british leadership in this area are crucial. funny, and your dummett that's— crucial. funny, and your dummett that's not— crucial. funny, and your dummett that's not funny but was interesting was when _ that's not funny but was interesting was when you talk at the outset about _ was when you talk at the outset about an — was when you talk at the outset about an open letter, i normally not about an open letter, i normally not a bi- about an open letter, i normally not a big fan— about an open letter, i normally not a big fan of— about an open letter, i normally not a big fan of open letters and you said it _ a big fan of open letters and you said it was — a big fan of open letters and you said it was aimed at mike johnson, and i_ said it was aimed at mike johnson, and i think— said it was aimed at mike johnson, and i think often open letters to the recipient feel like people are aiming _ the recipient feel like people are aiming at — the recipient feel like people are aiming at you, not another way. and it's not— aiming at you, not another way. and it's not open— aiming at you, not another way. and it's not open in terms of i'm open minded— it's not open in terms of i'm open minded and— it's not open in terms of i'm open minded and hope you will be in the soreness— minded and hope you will be in the soreness together but it's often open _ soreness together but it's often open in — soreness together but it's often open in the sense of open season on so-and-so — open in the sense of open season on so-and-so so— open in the sense of open season on so—and—so. sol open in the sense of open season on so—and—so. so i don't think open letters— so—and—so. so i don't think open letters as — so—and—so. so i don't think open letters as a — so—and—so. so i don't think open letters as a form of art so great of this particular one i could not agree with moore, and it's part of it he _ agree with moore, and it's part of it he did _ agree with moore, and it's part of it he did not quote that i thought

was most — it he did not quote that i thought was most interesting, which is he is calling _ was most interesting, which is he is calling on— was most interesting, which is he is calling on the speaker to, yes, look approve _ calling on the speaker to, yes, look approve this and put it to the floor and it— approve this and put it to the floor and it will— approve this and put it to the floor and it will get the votes to bring much—needed continued aid to the people _ much—needed continued aid to the people of— much—needed continued aid to the people of ukraine, but then he also says and _ people of ukraine, but then he also says and i_ people of ukraine, but then he also says and i forget the exact wording, please _ says and i forget the exact wording, please challenge president biden publicly— please challenge president biden publicly to do the things that you are frustrated that he won't do in terms _ are frustrated that he won't do in terms of— are frustrated that he won't do in terms of getting other world leaders to step _ terms of getting other world leaders to step up _ terms of getting other world leaders to step up and do their fair share, which— to step up and do their fair share, which by— to step up and do their fair share, which by the way they are. and i thought— which by the way they are. and i thought that was interesting because even though in the letter it says the choices binary, the idea, our system, — the choices binary, the idea, our system, we _ the choices binary, the idea, our system, we are so often asking all his letters — system, we are so often asking all his letters to either rubber—stamp with the _ his letters to either rubber—stamp with the president does or be a roadblock. pick one. roadblock, river— roadblock. pick one. roadblock, river state mental depending on what you want— river state mental depending on what you want the person who is in the oval— you want the person who is in the oval office — you want the person who is in the oval office or not. that is not very productive — oval office or not. that is not very productive. and what i think this letter— productive. and what i think this letter is — productive. and what i think this letter is doing is asking for a third — letter is doing is asking for a third thing, which is don't rubber—stamp president biden,

challenge him and push him in ways that are _ challenge him and push him in ways that are uncomfortable and by the way that _ that are uncomfortable and by the way that is— that are uncomfortable and by the way that is the difference between mike johnson and the republicans and president _ mike johnson and the republicans and president biden in a fruitful difference if they can work on and resolve _ difference if they can work on and resolve it — difference if they can work on and resolve it. ., . ., , resolve it. you have to put it on the floor and _ resolve it. you have to put it on the floor and debated _ resolve it. you have to put it on the floor and debated and - resolve it. you have to put it on | the floor and debated and that's the problem. we need to go to a quick break them up against a break but around the world and across the uk, you're watching bbc news. bbc news, bringing you different headlines from across the uk. as a child, kayna baugh learned to live with sickle cell disease. i had a lot of, like, pain in my ankles and in all myjoints. and when i was young, i didn't really understand it fully. itjust kind of meant i missed out on some things like playtime. if it was raining at school, i'd be inside. so this is our sickle cell unit. 0k. there is a doctor's office right there. today, kayna's visiting manchester royal infirmary�*s new sickle cell disease unit, which will care for those who have the condition.

the sickle cell guidelines nationally say that sickle cell patients should receive analgesia within 30 minutes, so knowing that this will happen will definitely make a huge impact to them. patients in crisis can call the unit, where they're triaged and treatment starts immediately. are they both side rooms? they're both side rooms. so this is just for sickle cell, then? just for sickle cell. for more stories from across the uk, head to the bbc news website. now it's time for the panel. let me start with you this evening, you want to talk about palliative care here in the uk.— you want to talk about palliative care here in the uk. yeah, so for a lot of family _ care here in the uk. yeah, so for a lot of family reasons _ care here in the uk. yeah, so for a lot of family reasons which - care here in the uk. yeah, so for a lot of family reasons which are - lot of family reasons which are tragic, but there, i've been dealing a lot with end—of—life care and thinking about what the end of life

looks like and i've seen some amazing people and some wonderful care within the hospice system here. and being an economist, i always look at how much this is costing and asked a few people at the hospice in colchester where i was, and there is £100 million shortfall in funding for hospice care at the moment, dropping central government funding 47 million of the last two years and that roughly equates because it cost £700 a dayjust to look after a patient, and much more if you include all the inpatient care, that's 34,000 include all the inpatient care, that's 3a,000 days of hospice care a year that have been lost over the last couple of years. so we did a bit of digging around and i looked at how or where this comes from and it comes predominantly from the voluntary sector, less than a third of it or around the front of it comes from the government. and it's very inconsistent. yet the uk government has a statutory duty to provide palliative care and

estimated by 2040, demand will have risen by 25%. d0 estimated by 2040, demand will have risen by 2596-— risen by 25%. do you think the failure on _ risen by 25%. do you think the failure on this _ risen by 25%. do you think the failure on this is _ risen by 25%. do you think the failure on this is a _ risen by 25%. do you think the failure on this is a reason - risen by 25%. do you think the failure on this is a reason the| failure on this is a reason the right to die has become such a hot button issue at the moment? is it because palliative care is not good enough? i because palliative care is not good enou~h? ~ because palliative care is not good enou~h? ,, . enough? i think palliative care will exist. i enough? i think palliative care will exist- l have _ enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to _ enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to say _ enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to say i _ enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to say i have - enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to say i have no - enough? i think palliative care will exist. i have to say i have no fall l exist. i have to say i have no fall for it but there is shortfall in the numbers of people who can actually get hold of it, and i think people don't realise just what palliative care do. anybody who has come across palliative care and has had direct experience of it cannot imagine a world without it. it's amazing. but the problem is we are frightened of it. we are frightened of it is we want to brush under the carpet and then we don't find it properly as well. i then we don't find it properly as well. . ., . ~ then we don't find it properly as well. . ., . ,, ., . well. i want to talk to you about it more because _ well. i want to talk to you about it more because my _ well. i want to talk to you about it more because my experience - well. i want to talk to you about it more because my experience with my mother actually was we did not get palliative care and that is heartbreaking when you don't get the right sort of response. but as you

say is not available and beds are not always available where they are. matthew, you want to talk about the decision in brussels today, 1.8 billion euros fine for apple for the way they run at their music streaming services. looking out thoseit streaming services. looking out those it might be cheaper. why is that significant? idistill those it might be cheaper. why is that significant?— that significant? will is not so much the _ that significant? will is not so much the story _ that significant? will is not so much the story itself, - that significant? will is not so much the story itself, it's - that significant? will is not so much the story itself, it's a i that significant? will is not so i much the story itself, it's a hook to a broader topic of how we, the royal— to a broader topic of how we, the royal week, you at abc and i work with tortoise run byjames harding, former— with tortoise run byjames harding, former head of bbc news, how we cover— former head of bbc news, how we cover these huge tech companies. and i cover these huge tech companies. and i once _ cover these huge tech companies. and i once asked _ cover these huge tech companies. and i once asked a group ofjournalists and editors— i once asked a group ofjournalists and editors and i said i'm curious how you — and editors and i said i'm curious how you would answer, i said how manyjournalistic cover sport love sport? _ manyjournalistic cover sport love sport? and — manyjournalistic cover sport love sport? and the answer was all of them, _ sport? and the answer was all of them, nearly all of them, certainly them, nearly all of them, certainly the beginning maybe they get jaded by the _ the beginning maybe they get jaded by the end but they all do it. i said _ by the end but they all do it. i said great, thought so, makes sense.

i said great, thought so, makes sense. i mean _ said great, thought so, makes sense. i meanjournalists to said great, thought so, makes sense. i mean journalists to cover business like business was? and the answer was almost — like business was? and the answer was almost none.— like business was? and the answer was almost none. almost none, yeah. and i was almost none. almost none, yeah. and i thought — was almost none. almost none, yeah. and | thought that — was almost none. almost none, yeah. and i thought that was _ was almost none. almost none, yeah. and i thought that was interesting - and i thought that was interesting so if you're covering something that you don't— so if you're covering something that you don't love, that seems to get you don't love, that seems to get you into _ you don't love, that seems to get you into this bad cycle... i�*m you don't love, that seems to get you into this bad cycle. . ._ you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but _ you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but i _ you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but i get _ you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but i get your _ you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but i get your point, - you into this bad cycle... i'm out of time but i get your point, it's| you into this bad cycle... i'm out| of time but i get your point, it's a good one. thank you very much for your time, good one. thank you very much for yourtime, have good one. thank you very much for your time, have a good evening. hello from the bbc sport centre, i'm sarah mulkerrins. hello. arsenal are keeping the pressure on at the top of the premier league table. they were off the mark five minutes and an arsenal did not look back there. five goals by different scores with declan rights getting the final one before the break. that

led to a lot of home fans leaving the ground early. just one goal after the interval, so the blaze offered resistance but being white with a fantastic strike to get his name on the scoresheet. so we into stoppage time now with arsenal at two points behind the leaders with that when and at one point behind manchester city who were in second. british number one katie boulter said, "this one is pretty amazing," as she won her first wta 500 title, coming from a set down to beat ukraine's marta kostyuk in the final of the san diego open. she'll now break into the world's top 30 for the first time. our sports correspondent katie gornall reports. this could take a while to sink in. the end of a brilliant week for britain's katie boulter. at times last year, she was ranked outside the top 150 and struggling. how times have changed. standing in her way

was marta kostyuk of ukraine, a quarterfinalist at the australian open. boulter was going to have to do this the hard way. from a set down, the british number one fought back and then dominated. oh, my word! fabulous winner. after taking out a succession of seeded players in san diego this week, the biggest win of her career was now within reach. a win that lifts her to 27th in the world, her highest—ranking yet. watching on, her boyfriend, alex de minaur, fresh, sort of, of winning his own tennis title at the mexican open. i want to say a small special thank you to my boyfriend, who... - he finished last night i at midnight, and i really want to embarrass him, i so he got on a six o'clock flight to be here today. so i do appreciate it. a double celebration, then, and in these parts, they reward you with a surfboard. another sign katie boulter is riding the crest of a wave.

katie gornall, bbc news. we're just a week away from the highlight of the jump racing season, the cheltenham festival, but it will be missing one of its stars. constitution hill will not defend the champion hurdle on the opening day. his trainer nicky henderson says he's failed to recover sufficiently from a respiratory infection, so won't be ready to run. lizzie greenwood—hughes has more. this is the best hurdler in the world, possibly the best racehorse ever in the world. if we could just see him a bit more often, just see how good he could be. he won last year's race by nine lengths. one of the very few bankers for british horses for the cheltenham festival. the horse is much brighter this morning, so there is good news. and it is nothing serious, but welfare is the greatest concern amongst racehorse owners and trainers. and they said he is not going to be ready for what nicky henderson called the olympic games, and that is what the cheltenham festival is. the president of motorsport�*s world governing body the fia, mohammed ben sulayem, is under investigation for allegedly interfering in a formula 1 race result.

a whistle—blower has told the fia that ben sulayem allegedly intervened to overturn a penalty given to aston martin's fernando alonso at last year's saudi arabian grand prix. the claim is in a report by an fia compliance officer to its ethics committee which has been seen by bbc sport. ben sulayem and the fia have not responded to requests for comment. the ethics committee is expected to take 4—6 weeks to issue its report. snooker has had its first look at the "golden ball" after the start of the riyadh season world masters. ding junhui beat omar alajlani 4—0 in saudi arabia, with the first frame marking the golden ball�*s first use in competitive snooker. the ball can only be potted as a bonus to a maximum break of 147. in this match, the ball was quickly out of the game, with alajlani unable to pot the black after his first red, meaning the referee had to take it off the table before the rest of the frame continued.

ding went on to lose 4—3 to ali carter in the evening session. and that's all the sport for now. to let you know arsenal still under way against schiffer united, leading 6-0 way against schiffer united, leading 6—0 there which means it will go just two points behind leaders to report at the top of the permit link table. that's a sport for now, bye—bye. hello there. much of the country had a pretty decent day today with some good spells of sunshine around. most places stayed dry, but there was wetter and breezier weather pushing into the south west of england, south wales. that rain will continue to journey northwards across much of the country during the overnight period. it will tend to weaken a little bit as it moves northwards, but it will become breezier for a time as the cloud and the rain pushes its way northwards and eastwards. behind it, skies will tend to clear, but we'll see a rash of showers, some of them heavy running into the channel islands and cross into southern england at times.

maybe some showers pushing into northern ireland now where we have the cloud and the rain, then temperatures won't be as low as where they'll be, where skies clear, and, again, a touch of frost, maybe the odd mist or fog patches, winds fall light. then into tuesday, we've got that overnight weather front pushing off in towards the north sea, another front pushing into northern ireland, western scotland, that'll enhance the shower activity here. could take a while for that front to clear the east coast of both scotland and england. eventually it will do, and it brightens up with plenty of sunshine. could still see a few showers towards the south and the south east of england, the odd heavier one. but most places, i think, away from these fronts, should be dry with some sunshine. top temperatures, 11 or 12 celsius once again, pretty much where we should be this time of year. into wednesday, we see this blocking area of high pressure over scandinavia begin to exert its force across the country. it will start to push the weather fronts out back into the atlantic. so i think many places should be dry on wednesday, variable cloud across scotland and eastern england. perhaps the odd shower, the odd shower perhaps for cornwall

up towards northern ireland. otherwise most places should have a dry day with lots of sunshine around, and the breeze will be picking up from the south east. top temperatures again, 12 or 13 celsius. similar story on thursday, if anything, that area of high pressure just edges a bit further westwards, pushing those fronts out into the atlantic. could be a bit more cloud around generally on thursday, central, northern, eastern areas, maybe the odd shower mixed into it. but there will be some sunshine around, probably the best of it in western scotland in towards northern ireland, west wales, south west england. temperatures maybe down a touch, the breeze will be picking up, 11 celsius will be the high. friday looks like we could see more sunshine around, again a brisk southeasterly breeze. there's just signs of it starting to turn a bit more unsettled and a bit milder as we head into the weekend.

tonight at ten... a major victory for donald trump as the us supreme court rules he cannot be banned from running for president by individual states. the decision clears the way for him to compete for the republican nomination. mr trump called it a big win for america. it was a very important decision, very well crafted, and i think it will go a long way toward bringing our country together, which our country needs. as many states go to the polls tomorrow, we'll look ahead to super tuesday and explain what the result means for the us election. also on the programme... lawlessness in haiti — a state of emergency is declared after a mass jailbreak leads to 4,000 prisoners escaping. ahead of budget day on wednesday,

we'll bring you analysis on whether the chancellor has delivered on last year's promises.