this is bbc news — the headlines... morocco has declared three days of national mourning, after a powerful earthquake killed at least 1,300 people and left hundreds more wounded. the quake�*s epicentre was in the atlas mountains, around 45 miles south of marrakesh. damaged roads are hampering the efforts of emergency teams to reach survivors. a terror suspect, who evaded police for more than three days after escaping from a london prison, has been returned to custody. 21—year—old daniel khalife was caught riding a bike in northolt in west london after being spotted three times in the chiswick area. ukrainian officials have criticised a joint declaration from members at the 620 summit in delhi, which they say watered down its condemnation of russia's invasion.

now on bbc news, political thinking with nick robinson. 0ur movement is fighting, it is winning, our movement, brothers and sisters, is back. so said my guest on this first episode of a new series of political thinking, a conversation with rather than a news interrogation of someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs. paul nowak is the new general secretary of the tuc and this week the trade union congress meets in his home city of liverpool. it meets at a time when there are more strikes than there have been

for many years. and at the time when paul nowak says working people are fighting back after the longest sustained squeeze on their incomes into centuries. welcome to political thinking. another thing you once said, ifear every thinking. another thing you once said, i fear every stereotype of a daily mail trade unionist, i'm slightly overweight, balding scouser who gets to aerated. an slightly overweight, balding scouser who gets to aerated.— who gets to aerated. an accurate description! _ who gets to aerated. an accurate description! we _ who gets to aerated. an accurate description! we will _ who gets to aerated. an accurate description! we will see. - who gets to aerated. an accurate description! we will see. what i who gets to aerated. an accurate i description! we will see. what gets ou description! we will see. what gets you aerated- _ description! we will see. what gets you aerated. what _ description! we will see. what gets you aerated. what really _ description! we will see. what gets you aerated. what really gets - description! we will see. what gets you aerated. what really gets me i description! we will see. what gets i you aerated. what really gets me is auoin out you aerated. what really gets me is going out talking — you aerated. what really gets me is going out talking to _ you aerated. what really gets me is going out talking to our— you aerated. what really gets me is going out talking to our members, | going out talking to our members, working people, seeing people working people, seeing people working hard at you cannot make ends meet. that really does fire me up because people who go to work everyday and try to do the right thing should be able to notjust get by but take their kids on holiday, out for a nice meal, and unfortunately i meet far too many for whom life is a struggle, not something to enjoy. life

for whom life is a struggle, not something to enjoy.— for whom life is a struggle, not something to enjoy. something to en'oy. we talked about wh ou something to en'oy. we talked about why you stayed — something to enjoy. we talked about why you stayed a _ something to enjoy. we talked about why you stayed a trade _ something to enjoy. we talked about why you stayed a trade unionist - something to enjoy. we talked about why you stayed a trade unionist but l why you stayed a trade unionist but that quote, our movement is fighting, winning, really? ithink it is. i fighting, winning, really? ithink it is- iwill— fighting, winning, really? ithink it is. i will give _ fighting, winning, really? ithink it is. i will give you _ fighting, winning, really? ithink it is. i will give you some - it is. i will give you some examples. you said, congress will be in liverpool, i have done dozens, hundreds of picket lines over the last eight or nine months, eight fewer liverpool with jacobs biscuit workers, 6.7% for their pay rise, kingsmill bakery workers, 8.7%, liverpool dockers, 18%. the private sector, where employers can afford to buy more, we have. to do that. in the public sector, thinking back to last year, ministers said here is the outcome of the pay review, and no negotiations, nothing with talking about. in education and health and civil service and others, our members said that is not good enough. they took action and voted for it, ministers had to move. it is not a land of milk and honey, but i

think our members have demonstrated taking action makes a difference. the public sector, nurses who could successfully ballot for more action, whether it is train, rail workers, whether it is train, rail workers, whether it is now doctors, not getting very far. whether it is now doctors, not getting very far-— getting very far. they are all different disputes _ getting very far. they are all different disputes and - getting very far. they are all different disputes and the i getting very far. they are all i different disputes and the tuc doesn't represent them all, the majority of the health unions did reach agreement, but on rail, aslef has reached agreement, ia agreements with train operators. they are not linked to the dft.— with train operators. they are not linked to the dft. let's about why ou linked to the dft. let's about why you became _ linked to the dft. let's about why you became a _ linked to the dft. let's about why you became a trade _ linked to the dft. let's about why you became a trade unionist. - linked to the dft. let's about why you became a trade unionist. wasj linked to the dft. let's about why i you became a trade unionist. was it a politicalfamily?_ a politicalfamily? growing up in merseyside _ a politicalfamily? growing up in merseyside in — a politicalfamily? growing up in merseyside in the _ a politicalfamily? growing up in merseyside in the 1980s - a politicalfamily? growing up in merseyside in the 1980s and - a politicalfamily? growing up in - merseyside in the 1980s and 1990s, everyone was political. my mum and dad were never members of the labour party or trade unionist actaviss but were politically engaged. it is what were politically engaged. it is what we talked about around the dinner table, that and everton —— activists.

table, that and everton -- activists-_ activists. let's not discuss everton! _ activists. let's not discuss everton! we _ activists. let's not discuss everton! we will - activists. let's not discuss everton! we will start - activists. let's not discuss everton! we will start offl activists. let's not discuss l everton! we will start off on activists. let's not discuss - everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool— everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool in _ everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool in the _ everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool in the 1980s - everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool in the 1980s was i everton! we will start off on a good food. liverpool in the 1980s was a l food. liverpool in the 1980s was a lace of food. liverpool in the 1980s was a place of economic _ food. liverpool in the 1980s was a place of economic decline, - food. liverpool in the 1980s was a place of economic decline, mass l place of economic decline, mass unemployment, but also political turmoil. notjust turmoil between liverpool's political representatives and the thatcher government but within the labour movement. did you feel as a teenager dragged into that... you movement. did you feel as a teenager dragged into that. . ._ dragged into that... you did feel it, ou dragged into that... you did feel it, you switched _ dragged into that... you did feel it, you switched on _ dragged into that... you did feel it, you switched on the - dragged into that... you did feel it, you switched on the news - dragged into that... you did feel it, you switched on the news or. dragged into that... you did feel - it, you switched on the news or read today echo, you heard about what was going on with the militant city council and all of that backwards and forwards with the national labour party, but there was a sense, i grew up among my granddad lived in toxteth, i visited him when the riots took place in 1981. it felt like a city, the tories said leave it, managed decline, it felt like liverpool was being left to look after itself. liverpool was being left to look after itself-— liverpool was being left to look afteritself. . , , after itself. defiantly new comes artl after itself. defiantly new comes partly from _ after itself. defiantly new comes partly from that, _ after itself. defiantly new comes partly from that, did _ after itself. defiantly new comes

partly from that, did you - after itself. defiantly new comes partly from that, did you take i after itself. defiantly new comes i partly from that, did you take part —— in the fight in newcomers. i was -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or 11, — -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or". but— -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or". but i _ -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or“, but ijoined _ -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or“, but ijoined a _ -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or“, but ijoined a union - -- in the fight in newcomers. i was ten or“, but ijoined a union at i ten or 11, but ijoined a union at the age of 17, the labour party at 19, but the fight also came from my mum and dad, my mum in particular, five foot nothing of scouse passion. maybe i got a bit of that from her. you spend more time with her than your dad, he was a welder, spent time travelling, sometimes abroad. he used to work on the north sea, two weeks on, two weeks off, worked in nigeria, abu dhabi, sometimes away for months, so he went where the work was. away for months, so he went where the work were— the work was. how did that shape our view the work was. how did that shape your view of _ the work was. how did that shape your view of work? _ the work was. how did that shape your view of work? in _ the work was. how did that shape your view of work? in the - the work was. how did that shape | your view of work? in the industry, unions were not very powerful. timer;r unions were not very powerful. they were in different _ unions were not very powerful. they were in different parts. _ unions were not very powerful. tie: were in different parts. in the shipyard and local power stations. but the north sea, the big american

drilling companies wanting to keep unions out. it gave me an appreciation of hard work, he was a hard worker and i appreciate everything he has done for us because he did go above and beyond for his family. really hard worker, to this day. i took that ethic. your grandparents. _ to this day. i took that ethic. your grandparents, both _ to this day. i took that ethic. your grandparents, both came - to this day. i took that ethic. your grandparents, both came from abroad. they came to liverpool, people forget, this is a city of migration, a city that looks out to the sea, a city that looks to the west, not towards europe. did they shape your view? ~ , ,., , towards europe. did they shape your view? ~ , , ' view? absolutely, different experiences, _ view? absolutely, different experiences, my _ view? absolutely, different experiences, my grandad i view? absolutely, different - experiences, my grandad came about during the second world war with the polish raf, based in liverpool, stayed in liverpool, my grandad jimmy came from hong kong. he was a cook in the mission navy. he married

an irish liverpool woman and stayed in the city. everybody liverpool has a bit of their family that came somewhere else.— a bit of their family that came somewhere else. presumably you a- reciate somewhere else. presumably you appreciate the — somewhere else. presumably you appreciate the fight _ somewhere else. presumably you appreciate the fight to _ somewhere else. presumably you appreciate the fight to your - appreciate the fight to your grandparents had to have to be taken as equals and get rights. absolutely, at the end of the second world war, hundreds of chinese merchant navy men were rounded up and deported from the country. 20,000. ., ., , ., , 20,000. some had families and they thou . ht 20,000. some had families and they thought they — 20,000. some had families and they thought they had _ 20,000. some had families and they thought they had abandoned - 20,000. some had families and they thought they had abandoned them, i thought they had abandoned them, they hadn't, they had been deported. i suppose my grandad worked for most of his life had english electric but was always due the pool, difference, so that is why it frustrates me, it makes me angry when i hear about ministers politicising migration and talking about migrants as if they are about with no contribution to make. i are about with no contribution to make. ~ , . ,

are about with no contribution to make. ~ , ., , ., , make. i think my family did. that is the background, _ make. i think my family did. that is the background, let's— make. i think my family did. that is the background, let's talk— make. i think my family did. that is the background, let's talk about. the background, let's talk about you. you go to university, but when you. you go to university, but when you leave you are in quite insecure jobs, a bit like your mum and dad, i suspect. but unusually you are at asda and you are stating organising. yeah, ijoined on the first day, working in the warehouse, the local supermarket, i became a health and safety rep a couple of months afterwards. it is a cliche but it is true, the trade union movement has been the most important part of my education, going on courses with other reps, talking to people not just in supermarkets but factories, breweries, it helps you grow up and gives you a sense of a different perspective. gives you a sense of a different perspective-— gives you a sense of a different --ersective. ~ i. ., ., ., ., perspective. when you move onto a call centre. — perspective. when you move onto a call centre, another _ perspective. when you move onto a call centre, another place _ perspective. when you move onto a call centre, another place that - call centre, another place that doesn't have a lot of trade union organising, you again become an organiser. organising, you again become an oraaniser. �* , ., ~

organiser. because we were working in a unionised _ organiser. because we were working in a unionised employer _ organiser. because we were working in a unionised employer but - organiser. because we were working in a unionised employer but for - organiser. because we were working in a unionised employer but for an i in a unionised employer but for an employment agency, that sense of a two tier workforce which is so prevalent today, definitely the case then. we organised well over 100 people into the union, it was the first national pay negotiation i had been involved in. full—time officer came up, had the negotiations, reported back to members. then you not reported back to members. then you got sacked! — reported back to members. then you got sacked! the _ reported back to members. then you got sacked! the employer— reported back to members. then you got sacked! the employer said - reported back to members. then you got sacked! the employer said we i got sacked! the employer said we were not sacked, _ got sacked! the employer said we were not sacked, it _ got sacked! the employer said we were not sacked, it was _ got sacked! the employer said we were not sacked, it wasjust - got sacked! the employer said we were not sacked, it wasjust the i were not sacked, it was just the assignments had to change, so we were all off contract, but don't worry, we will find other work, but fully enough they never did! hearing this description _ fully enough they never did! hearing this description you _ fully enough they never did! hearing this description you might _ fully enough they never did! hearing this description you might think - fully enough they never did! hearing this description you might think you | this description you might think you were a2 bachelor 22, already involved in national pay negotiations. i involved in national pay negotiations. involved in national pay neuotiations. ., �* ., ., negotiations. i wouldn't want to overstate my — negotiations. i wouldn't want to overstate my role _ negotiations. i wouldn't want to overstate my role in _ negotiations. i wouldn't want to overstate my role in those, - negotiations. i wouldn't want to overstate my role in those, i i negotiations. i wouldn't want to l overstate my role in those, i was the junior partner, overstate my role in those, i was thejunior partner, but i did help. part of your politics comes from

university. you studied at home, liverpool polytechnic, university, was that a left—wing education? it was that a left—wing education? it was said that wasn't. i started off on a building degree. i get moved into the building industry, my uncle was a builder, he got me and my mate and one of his cousins places at liverpool, i lasted a year before i was unceremoniously kicked off. i did urban studies. why? as anyone in my family will tell you, i am the least practical member of my family. i wasn't a great student. not a great attend application politics with some of the lectures and attack got me through. with some of the lectures and attack got me through-— with some of the lectures and attack got me through. with some of the lectures and attack i got me through-_ i got me through. they were marxist? i met my wife — got me through. they were marxist? i met my wife in _ got me through. they were marxist? i met my wife in university _ got me through. they were marxist? i met my wife in university but - got me through. they were marxist? i met my wife in university but we - met my wife in university but we didn't get together then, far from it, but she meant he is the only reason i got my degree was because

one of the senior lecturers was a marxist and i recycled the same se three or four times and he seemed to like it. , ,., , three or four times and he seemed to like it. ,_ .,, ., like it. the essay was on the militant tendency, _ like it. the essay was on the militant tendency, on - like it. the essay was on the militant tendency, on that i like it. the essay was on the - militant tendency, on that faction that took over the liverpool labour party, that were kicked out by neil kinnock. were you a the approving then? did you disapprove, have you learned from them?— then? did you disapprove, have you learned from them? there has been a lot written about _ learned from them? there has been a lot written about that, _ learned from them? there has been a lot written about that, i _ learned from them? there has been a lot written about that, i don't - lot written about that, i don't remember the perspective in that essay on years ago, but... essen essay on years ago, but... even thou:h essay on years ago, but... even though you — essay on years ago, but... even though you wrote _ essay on years ago, but... even though you wrote it _ essay on years ago, but... even though you wrote it eight - essay on years ago, but... even though you wrote it eight times! yes, but ijust resubmitted it. there was a sense of if you were growing up in that city, government wasn't interested, mass unemployment, real poverty and despair. people went looking for somebody to stand up and provide an alternative. it was a time when people felt they had to stand up because no one was listening at westminster, and if you look across

britain today, a lot of towns are the same. britain today, a lot of towns are the same-— britain today, a lot of towns are the same. . ., ., ., , the same. the culmination of this, rather the end _ the same. the culmination of this, rather the end of _ the same. the culmination of this, rather the end of this, _ the same. the culmination of this, rather the end of this, was - the same. the culmination of this, rather the end of this, was neil- rather the end of this, was neil kinnock condemning what he called the grotesque chaos, he said, of the labour council, he repeated the phrase, hiring taxes to deliver redundancy notices to his own workers. that was the beginning of the effort militant, at least within the effort militant, at least within the labour party. they were trying to show to the thatcher government, we will bring the whole house down. i wonder if that now you look back teaches you something about what does yeah, i think when you split the labour and trade union movement, labour and trade union— labour and trade union movements and when ou labour and trade union movements and when you split — labour and trade union movements and when you split the _ labour and trade union movements and when you split the labour _ labour and trade union movements and when you split the labour movement i when you split the labour movement generally, you weaken the labour movement. i spent most of my time as a trade unionist and labour party

member trying to build consensus, not agreements on everything. that says that a united party is one that is more likely to win power.- is more likely to win power. shock revelation. _ is more likely to win power. shock revelation, conservative _ is more likely to win power. shock revelation, conservative ministers say that about you. during the pandemic, covid, when you at the tuc, working therefore two decades, had dire talks with ministers about how to deal with covid, javer pinchot said? —— direct talks. == pinchot said? -- direct talks. -- direct talks- _ pinchot said? —— direct talks. » direct talks. that is the beauty of trade unions, myjob is to represent working people and whoever is in number ten on the department of business, department for transport, myjob is to build a relationship and take forward what matters. during the pandemic, chris heaton—harris was the rail minister,

we had regular engagement notjust with me but the unions about how to rebuild rail. we need to invest. that is white has been so disappointing, the approach the government has taken. you disappointing, the approach the government has taken. you met boris johnson? an — government has taken. you met boris johnson? an interesting _ government has taken. you met boris johnson? an interesting experience. i johnson? an interesting experience. clearl , johnson? an interesting experience. clearly. how— johnson? an interesting experience. clearly, how honest _ johnson? an interesting experience. clearly, how honest do _ johnson? an interesting experience. clearly, how honest do you - johnson? an interesting experience. clearly, how honest do you want - johnson? an interesting experience. clearly, how honest do you want me j clearly, how honest do you want me to be? ., ., , ., ., be clearly, how honest do you want me to be?_ be totallyl to be? not honest at all! be totally honest. to be? not honest at all! be totally honest- that _ to be? not honest at all! be totally honest. that sense _ to be? not honest at all! be totally honest. that sense that _ to be? not honest at all! be totally honest. that sense that you - to be? not honest at all! be totally honest. that sense that you have i to be? not honest at all! be totally| honest. that sense that you have to get his attention. 0nce honest. that sense that you have to get his attention. once you do get his attention, the conversation is engaged, but as i say, i went in for that meeting with frances 0'grady, general secretary, that meeting with frances 0'grady, generalsecretary, it that meeting with frances 0'grady, general secretary, it is ourjob to have the conversations that most trade union is wouldn't have because first and foremost members confirmed. first and foremost members confirmed-— first and foremost members confirmed. �* ., . , , confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took uuite confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took quite a — confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took quite a lot— confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took quite a lot of— confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took quite a lot of credit, _ confirmed. but, frances o'grady, you took quite a lot of credit, claimed - took quite a lot of credit, claimed a lot of credit for the furlough programme, from which people got

paid not to work. because they often couldn't. do you really think that the tuc made at that party happen? i do and i think francis in particular takes a lot of credit for it, it wouldn't have happened to the scale we saw without our intervention. a couple of weeks before the chancellor announced furlough, i had given evidence take select committee is lockdown started that said you will need to have a massive short end jobs subsidy scheme, the only way to keep employment, to get people to keep their homes, livelihoods. we had a series of practical conversations with the treasury, frances in particular, talking to rishi sunak.- treasury, frances in particular, talking to rishi sunak. when you got this “ob, talking to rishi sunak. when you got this job. you — talking to rishi sunak. when you got this job, you wrote _ talking to rishi sunak. when you got this job, you wrote to _ talking to rishi sunak. when you got this job, you wrote to rishi - talking to rishi sunak. when you got this job, you wrote to rishi sunak. thisjob, you wrote to rishi sunak and said, shall we meet? what has he said? i and said, shall we meet? what has he said? . �* and said, shall we meet? what has he said? ., �* ., ., and said, shall we meet? what has he said? . �* . . your said? i haven't had a day. your letter is being _ said? i haven't had a day. your letter is being processed? - said? i haven't had a day. your letter is being processed? it i said? i haven't had a day. your letter is being processed? it is|

said? i haven't had a day. your. letter is being processed? it is not 'ust rishi letter is being processed? it is not just rishi sunak _ letter is being processed? it is not just rishi sunak but _ letter is being processed? it is not just rishi sunak but our— letter is being processed? it is not just rishi sunak but our current i just rishi sunak but our current chancellor, jeremy hunt has said it in front of the select committee, two or three times, he is happy to meet with me personally, ahead of the tuc, a meeting hasn't happened. we are told that cannot happen while there are ongoing disputes. if the tuc could ever talk to the union with a dispute going on, we would never meet ever. he with a dispute going on, we would never meet ever.— with a dispute going on, we would never meet ever. he said, it would have added — never meet ever. he said, it would have added a _ never meet ever. he said, it would have added a complexity _ never meet ever. he said, it would have added a complexity to - never meet ever. he said, it would have added a complexity to those. have added a complexity to those discussions.— discussions. yeah, i think it may have brought — discussions. yeah, i think it may have brought clarity _ discussions. yeah, i think it may have brought clarity to _ discussions. yeah, i think it may have brought clarity to those - have brought clarity to those discussions and encourage the company to get to the negotiating table earlier. idols? company to get to the negotiating table earlier.— company to get to the negotiating table earlier. now you are meeting in our table earlier. now you are meeting in your home _ table earlier. now you are meeting in your home city. _ table earlier. now you are meeting in your home city, the _ table earlier. now you are meeting in your home city, the tuc, - table earlier. now you are meeting in your home city, the tuc, trying l in your home city, the tuc, trying to weigh influence the agenda of what you hope will be the next government, and you are telling them not about workers' rights but big headline announcement is tax policy. let's start with workers' rights, angela rayner will come to our congress on the tuesday and talk about the new deal for workers,

potentially transformative. i could list all the things that are in there but a ban on fire and rehire, tackling zero hours, etc. thea;r there but a ban on fire and rehire, tackling zero hours, etc. they have cold feet about _ tackling zero hours, etc. they have cold feet about that. _ tackling zero hours, etc. they have cold feet about that. there - tackling zero hours, etc. they have cold feet about that. there was - tackling zero hours, etc. they have cold feet about that. there was a i cold feet about that. there was a thing called the national policy, gimme through the detail, they started water it down, consulting on this and that. started water it down, consulting on this and that-— this and that. they will consult on employment _ this and that. they will consult on employment status, _ this and that. they will consult on employment status, that - this and that. they will consult on | employment status, that package, this and that. they will consult on i employment status, that package, i know and believe that package will be part and parcel of labour cosmic manifesto in the next election. i have every confidence, keir starmer said that, angela will say it, it is the first 100 days priority for an incoming labour government. we need to reset the balance of power and have a broader conversation about inequality in this country. at a time when i go around the country and talk to members who cannot make

encinitas, —— make ends meet. pay rises, not in payback pay rises last year, 19%, best ever year, best two years for city bonuses. i want a conversation but how we make sure we tax will find not work. we have put forward ideas like equalising capital gains tax within income to with income tax, like taxing the excess profits of the oil and gas giants and the banks. these are things that have huge public support, a majority conservative voters feel there is the need to tax wealth more fairly. but voters feel there is the need to tax wealth more fairly.— voters feel there is the need to tax wealth more fairly. but not from the leadership of — wealth more fairly. but not from the leadership of the _ wealth more fairly. but not from the leadership of the labour _ wealth more fairly. but not from the leadership of the labour party, - wealth more fairly. but not from the leadership of the labour party, the l leadership of the labour party, the shadow chancellor goes to the telegraph and says, no, not doing well taxes, she says the tax burden is at its highest in 60 or 70 years,

i don't see a route to having more money for public services that is to taxing our way there. i money for public services that is to taxing our way there.— money for public services that is to taxing our way there. i have a huge amount of respect _ taxing our way there. i have a huge amount of respect for _ taxing our way there. i have a huge amount of respect for rachel, - taxing our way there. i have a huge amount of respect for rachel, i - taxing our way there. i have a huge i amount of respect for rachel, i hope she is our next chancellor because we need a fundamental change of approach in number ten and number 11. in approach in number ten and number 11. ., y ., approach in number ten and number 11. ., , approach in number ten and number 11. in part, do you see yourself as creatin: 11. in part, do you see yourself as creating the _ 11. in part, do you see yourself as creating the political _ 11. in part, do you see yourself as creating the political space? - 11. in part, do you see yourself as creating the political space? you| creating the political space? you can go further than the labour party can go further than the labour party can go, you can shift public opinion so that they can keep an eye on it and say, thank you, we can embrace wealth tax. i and say, thank you, we can embrace wealth tam— wealth tax. i do things to the prism ofthe wealth tax. i do things to the prism of the labour _ wealth tax. i do things to the prism of the labour party, _ wealth tax. i do things to the prism of the labour party, i _ wealth tax. i do things to the prism of the labour party, i represent - wealth tax. i do things to the prism j of the labour party, i represent our members, make sure the stuff that matters to them is on the agenda for all politicians. you matters to them is on the agenda for all politicians.— all politicians. you are now at the head of this _ all politicians. you are now at the head of this great _ all politicians. you are now at the head of this great trade _ all politicians. you are now at the head of this great trade union - head of this great trade union movement. the critics would say, the

failure has been to do what you tried to do as a teenager, that it is the very sectors that have grown, the sectors you started life in, in a supermarket, a call centre, where trade unions have lost members in traditional industries but have failed to recruit. it is frustrating, - failed to recruit. it is frustrating, there i failed to recruit. it is| frustrating, there are failed to recruit. it is - frustrating, there are good failed to recruit. it 3 frustrating, there are good reasons for it, but our retail units will tell you that every year they are recruiting a quarter of their membership to stay still because of the nature of the industry where people as cycling in and out of employment. we have been dealing with, thinking back to 1979, wave after wave of conservative government, the attack on the right to strike right now, legislation designed to make it difficult for unions to organise. pick those warehouses, i was at amazon in coventry were the gop has tried to organise, we have no right to access

the workplace, no right to get contact details of the workers. the company can play fast and loose with the union recognition legislation to frustrate the union cosmic attempt to get representation. it is not a level playing field. i5 to get representation. it is not a level playing field. is it to get representation. it is not a level playing field.— level playing field. is it naive to think ou level playing field. is it naive to think you can — level playing field. is it naive to think you can do _ level playing field. is it naive to think you can do it _ level playing field. is it naive to think you can do it in _ level playing field. is it naive to think you can do it in a - level playing field. is it naive to j think you can do it in a different way? instead of being in opposition, you have to work with them and say, if you want to lose fewer people, less cost from people constantly leaving, we will work with you? some argue company like greggs have done that, they have shown they can work with their workers, pay them better, and that is a more cooperative way. that is 90% of the work the union does, i was up in the end in bargains in runcorn, one of their warehouse and distribution centres,

working really closely with management. they have turned the situation around where they had 500% labour turnover so people coming to work never going back. 500% labour turnover, completely transformed because of the work of unions and employers together. 90% of our work, thatis employers together. 90% of our work, that is what we do, we want members to work for successful organisations. but it means if you have an employer taking the mickey, like amazon, we will stand up and fight. ultimately, we will get a union voice in amazon and elsewhere. ever your decades... union voice in amazon and elsewhere. everyour decades... i union voice in amazon and elsewhere. ever your decades. . ._ ever your decades... i don't look at! you ever your decades. .. i don't look at! you still— ever your decades. .. i don't look at! you still look— ever your decades... i don't look at! you still look 22, _ ever your decades... i don't look at! you still look 22, honestly! i | at! you still look 22, honestly! i am the only _ at! you still look 22, honestly! i am the only one _ at! you still look 22, honestly! i am the only one in _ at! you still look 22, honestly! i am the only one in my - at! you still look 22, honestly! i am the only one in my family i at! you still look 22, honestly! ii am the only one in my family who at! you still look 22, honestly! i - am the only one in my family who has lost his hair!— lost his hair! let's not talk about that! football, _ lost his hair! let's not talk about that! football, is— lost his hair! let's not talk about that! football, is supporting - lost his hair! let's not talk about that! football, is supporting the| that! football, is supporting the trade union occasionally and the labour party felt like supporting everton? , , ., ,

everton? sometimes it is a triumph of ho -e everton? sometimes it is a triumph of hope over— everton? sometimes it is a triumph of hope over experience. _ everton? sometimes it is a triumph of hope over experience. i - everton? sometimes it is a triumph of hope over experience. i was - of hope over experience. i was t in: to of hope over experience. i was trying to think _ of hope over experience. i was trying to think when _ of hope over experience. i was trying to think when everton i of hope over experience. i was i trying to think when everton last won a trophy. trying to think when everton last won a trophy-— won a trophy. 1995. you will remember _ won a trophy. 1995. you will remember that. _ won a trophy. 1995. you will remember that. even - won a trophy. 1995. you will| remember that. even longer won a trophy. 1995. you will- remember that. even longer than since the labour _ remember that. even longer than since the labour party _ remember that. even longer than j since the labour party overturned the conservative majority. i since the labour party overturned the conservative majority.- the conservative ma'ority. i have never the conservative ma'ority. i have heard h the conservative ma'ority. i have never heard my _ the conservative majority. i have never heard my kids _ the conservative majority. i have never heard my kids after- the conservative majority. i have never heard my kids after the i the conservative majority. i have - never heard my kids after the words, why did you make us become evertonians? i know they are thinking it. i evertonians? i know they are thinking it— evertonians? i know they are thinkin: it. ., �* ., ., thinking it. i don't want to intrude on rivate thinking it. i don't want to intrude on private grief — thinking it. i don't want to intrude on private grief but _ thinking it. i don't want to intrude on private grief but seriously, - on private grief but seriously, people who love everton as you do, they despair for the club, not at they despair for the club, not at the moment because of the performers on the pitch, though that is not great, but often page do you look at this club as a metaphor for wider problems in society? everything is owned by british iranian prison, chairman of a russian holding company, spent hundreds of millions of pounds by the club is almost relegated last season and looks like it will get fined for breaking

football finance rules. has something gone wrong? clearly at hand, ou something gone wrong? clearly at hand. you want — something gone wrong? clearly at hand, you want me _ something gone wrong? clearly at hand, you want me about - something gone wrong? clearly at hand, you want me about libelling anyone so i will be careful. i love going to the match, with my daughter and my sons, brothers, it is a family thing. but i worry that the solar football has been stripped out. it leaves behind, the team with the most money is the one most likely to win the premiership. i will not predict the final standings but city will be near the top. this is our but city will be near the top. this is your first _ but city will be near the top. this is your first tuc _ but city will be near the top. this is your first tuc congress and general secretary, in your home city, will the family be there? yes. city, will the family be there? yes, m mum city, will the family be there? yes, my mum and _ city, will the family be there? yes, my mum and dad _ city, will the family be there? yes, my mum and dad will _ city, will the family be there? yes, my mum and dad will all _ city, will the family be there? yes, my mum and dad will all be - city, will the family be there? yes my mum and dad will all be there, and... ~ . , my mum and dad will all be there, and... ~ ., , ., ., ., and... were that be in emotional moment? _ and. .. were that be in emotional moment? i— and... were that be in emotional moment? i think _ and... were that be in emotional moment? i think so. _ and... were that be in emotional moment? i think so. when - and. .. were that be in emotional moment? i think so. when i- and... were that be in emotional moment? i think so. when i got| and... were that be in emotional - moment? i think so. when i got first a- ointed moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to — moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to the _ moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to the job, _ moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to the job, the _ moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to the job, the family - moment? i think so. when i got first appointed to the job, the family had | appointed to the job, the family had got, my grandad who had worked in english electrical, when he retired the gate him a radio and a gold

watch and the family, that what had beenin watch and the family, that what had been in a draw for decades and the family got the watch out and got it working again and had it inscribed. i am so proud of my family in that sort of... people who have worked hard, played hard, looked after each other, looked after the people around them. it will be an emotional moment but being tuc general secretary, proud moment, humbling moment, and scary moment. paul nowak, moment, and scary moment. paul nowak. general— moment, and scary moment. paul nowak, general secretary of the tuc, thank you forjoining me on political thinking. thank you forjoining me on politicalthinking. it thank you forjoining me on political thinking. it is amazing how many times that city, the city of liverpool, paul's home city, seems to have shaped the political thinking of gasly on this programme. from tory cabinet ministers, including the one in the news just now, gillian keegan, to trade union leaders like the new general secretary of the tuc. what he seems

to have learned is that you have to be strong to bring about change but that consensus may maybe works better than confrontation. thanks for watching.

live from washington. this is bbc news. more than 2,000 people are dead after a powerful earthquake in morocco, as rescuers struggle to reach the hardest—hit areas. g20 leaders agree on a joint declaration in delhi, but the language on ukraine is watered down. i'm helena humphrey. good to have you with us. we begin in morocco, where more than 2,000 people are dead and many more are missing — following the earthquake that struck the country early on saturday. entire villages are reported to have been flattened, like here. rescuers are scrambling to save

families trapped under the rubble. but roads to more remote and mountainous areas are blocked