impact of today's headlines. we're flying now with a new live it. we don't really understand what the rules are and how a lot of setting the agenda for tomorrow's discussions. what can we do to boxing? i've seen goes in every sport except boxing, international filmmakers, them will cross journalists, bring programs to enforce. uninspired. how old are you? they should never ask the lady how old her code is. boucher 0 she promised a tough stance against undocumented migrate. but italy's prime minister is now facing an increase in the number of people hoping to live in europe. so what's behind this rise and has the security approach failed? this is inside storage, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm sure. on an island in crisis. that's how the mayor of lump produced as describes the record number of migrant arrivals on its shores. thousands of people have landed on the small italian island from north africa on flimsy boats in the past 2 days. conflict and instability across north africa along with the worsening economic and social conditions into an agent have contributed to the search since january this year. more than 118000 migrants have arrived in italy by boat. then your record figure is a huge challenge for prime minister in georgia, maloney who's right when government promised tighter controls, it says it's lacking support from europe despite the commission saying it's ready to help. we'll get to our guess in a moment. first, this report from car like it overwhelmed and struggling to cope with the boats. keep coming and with them another death. this time of the southern coast, a 5 month old baby boy drowned during a rescue attempt. his mother survived. she's one of more than 6000 people arriving

from tennessee yet in the past 2 days. the record number of arrivals on the island of land producer is not just a growing problem for each of these government. but for increasing the strain in relation to the 2, i set it at the beginning. what is happening lamp produced is the death of your, of the dead baby represents the death of your its political, cultural, social and value death because italy is low. yeah. what did you say is awesome? the 1st part is cool for migraines crossing from north africa and the flash point of europe's migration crisis. this year's record arrivals total move and the islands population and a well above the official capacity of its only migrant reception center. most of transferred to the launch island of sicily. that doesn't is the growing strain on the system. no stop the flow. we are more or less the, the number we had in 2016, which was an exception. for a rival what

seems to be a bit different now more more i'm di, migration. each of these prime minister, georgia maloney, one office nearly a year ago on a promise to stop the arrivals mainly from she needs here in june she struck a 1000000000 dollar e deal with its government and also targeted migrant rescue charities. but that hasn't stopped, the numbers nearly doubled the same period. last, you know, the depth, the highest and central mediterranean, since 2017, according to the united nations. these is a problem that is not only a problem of the countries that receive these influx. it's a problem of the b and continents, and in particular they will be in union. and there must be mechanisms of slowly that it's a and better them shedding. that's off effective use we got. but despite the cold

for collective action, solidarity seems to be framing with front tightening for the security and germany. suspending an e resettlement plan many and now on such and about the future car leg inside story the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guess in room andrea, the pinterest scientific director at the center for european policy in berlin by the above a former syrian refugee who took a dangerous journey on a smuggler's boat 10 years ago. that landed in italy and an officer of an upcoming book is also in rome. fernando nelly fellow, chief president of the institute of international affairs, he's also a former permanent representative of italy to the european union. a warm welcome to you all. and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. but let me start with you today. when talking about this issue. we mustn't forget the plight of so many people, whether they are migrants or refugees who are so desperate that they do whatever

they can to take these extremely dangerous journeys in order to try to start a new life in order to try to get somewhere where they can set up a future for themselves and their families, so many people perish when they are trying to cross the sea when they are trying to reach safety you yourself were able to reach italy, i was told in 2014, i want to ask you about that journey and what that experience was like for you. well, thank you so much for having me in the thanks for going, bolted covering this important subject. um, when you were talking about people, it's tragedies, people going down while trying to cross the sea to get their lives. like you said, this is not something that people do for fun. there's not something that people he just decide i'm going to do this these, these are people who are just like me,

we're having a very, very tough time. and like it says desperate time call for the district major. so this is not something that anyone should go through willingly unless they are 100 percent for us to do so by the pressure of fly for what kind of situations are going to um my, my journey 2014 was similar to many, many people who are going through it since and before and still, and i'm, i'm scared to say that it will keep on happening. um, my journey where elizabeth longer than the journey to prompt and use it to loved. it goes up because i, i love to go through from egypt, maternity to days, 87 days until we arrived in italy in 2014. like you mentioned

andrea. um, you heard, but are there talking about the fact that, you know, he's fearful that this is just going to continue to keep happening. it's estimated that over a $100000.00 migrants have arrived in italy since the start of the year. that's according to data from the interior ministry. that's almost double the number of migrants that were recorded arriving in the same period in 2022. clearly, whatever approaches have been taken by the you by italy, but they have not worked as far as trying to establish the flow of mike. it's the you keeps investing in security measures. i want to ask you if that is the right approach here, would they not do better by trying to come up with a different framework of the b as in recent years at the u. s. and these are the, on the west side of the security on the

causes. and it means that the and i was trying to achieve the way the actions are closed. i understand that we some kind of a major working. uh sure, no or not the previous mentioned the way for another. let me ask you why is this such a problem specifically for italy? is it simply because of the fact that land producer is the southern most tip of europe, that it is an entry point, or are there other underlying issues that must be contended with as well as well. uh, what you said before about the figures is correct. uh, to my knowledge this year we have something like one other than the set, the phone,

people arriving from outside your house. which is at least as much as the double of the year before. but the figure of a high by the mind use a a manageable. the problem is that in the case of easily, most of these arrive hosts are concentrated in one single place, which is in either a very small line of which is between the borders to each on the southern borders of sicily. not too far from the coast of denisia, very easy to reach these inclines they need y'all take effect, which is disastrous when you have a day like yesterday when you have something like 7000 people to live in, in the same day. the city these all these more dollars, i'm not capable of managing subsidies, huge number of people arriving pulled together when seen this. so this is why there

is this. let me try the bull wave of. busy the motions and the musical discussions of bobby's arrivals. but again, what i'm stress is that lease fee goes up, people arriving dewey duvie, and so easily until the rest of europe wouldn't be manageable if they were manish in uh, model. so the very sick manner. i'm all the countries of the european union saw that we would find the easy because it's a very touchy and sensitive diesel level everywhere in the walls. but the only possibility is to defuse these people in older countries of europe. and i think that you have to figure out. ready the manage of se, manageable goals. our job markets need my bills from all the side you to but the hertford, under there say that perhaps this could be more manageable if there was more solidarity from other european countries in you. law states that people must claim

asylum in the country where they 1st arrive in europe, and that's left. a lot of southern u. member states like italy, it demanding more help from, from, from neighbors from other members of the you. in the past, brussels had tried to force other countries in the you to take in a certain number of migraines based on the size of their population. from your point of view, from your experience, is that something that's ever actually worked at the end? it's like it's worth and it should work because what does the alternative we have to look at the alternative. we are talking about $7000.00 people arriving at somebody do is uh, does it pretty small island? what is the limits where we say we have to do something? yes, the law says that refugees or migraines should stay in the 1st country that they arrive to. this is the law that needs to be changed or modified board. talked about somehow just because of the southern borders of h l e r a say, or,

or europe in general facing a higher percentage of the migrations. it doesn't mean that others have not spent spending so directly like, like what happened before and the, this have been proven to be to work somehow, at least, even if it's not perfect. it's still better than what does what we have right now. like uh, we've got dimensions on windows is very small, the facility will not be able to contain all these people like looking for talking about 7000. what if we're talking about 10 or 15 or 70000? what will happen then people, it's not fair for the people who are crossing the sea. it's not fair for the people of islands or any anyone involved in the situation. it's not a good situation and something the, everything needs to be done and may it. so it'd be modifying this law or talking about it or discussing it because it's certainly something must be done. andre,

i saw you reacting to a lot of what, but there was saying that so i wanted to give you an opportunity to go ahead and jump in. yes, i was to say the, this is not the cheese not to do this in the years. so actually, why many reviews or do you want to be, i think it is, there seems we are trying to different ways to do some fast. so the, you know, versus strategy. but it's not, no harm is to use the be doing. this is something you can do wrong, we so much money as so many floors, the, the car, the used. we just need it by the way to see the car raising new york. and we try to start actually not the box floor.

actually the saw accommodations and try to assume jobs. i'm the star and the party . it's me hungry for the 1st time. we showed me so yeah, we don't need pounds on the go to, to, to uh, andre, since you brought up a georgia moloney, i actually did want to ask you a follow up with regard to the prime minister because she was elected last year, pledging to fight irregular immigration, but so far she's really failed to curb the number of migrants who have been arriving in italy. how is that impacting the way the public views are in italy and how is that impacting her based of support as well? i just say so far. i imagine you choose not to gauge my part of the next time. that is why i need to be on a position and you know, to decide on either the one we want us to be me and to face the program to

try to find solutions to the is the options to choose something stronger and the union she went to the bottom says she is not enough. she's just being much more and you're this is mandy. when you start on the saw the race and try and find some solution. in order to do that, she needs to know how to release the se. fernando um, a ministers negotiated a migration deal earlier this year it's, it's a deal that aims to ensure a fair distribution of asylum seekers across the e. u. is it likely to be signed off on by the u and in 2024? because reports have suggested that might be the case. um, so do you think that's likely to happen and, and, and if it were,

would that dramatically help the situation or is there still going to be this kind of murky situation that has existed when ever these types of deals are assigned in the past to my knowledge, yes, there is a in agreement, the principle of 40 percent. i'm in the plan that should start with a number with the figure of i to said 2000 the 1st year. and $262000.00 monitors to be relocated already sent to us. in the side here on this plan boss, there are 2 counties which are opposing strongly opposing these via the 2 countries pulled out in hungry. so there is a, there isn't biggest ation with department which is ongoing. we don't know yet. what would be the basic essentials and they're easy. so hopelessly you somebody needs to come because it's true that the past regulation can conduct it by a majority vote. by default, the 2 countries, which by the way,

are also increasing. what should be allies of the tyler governments like pull them in? i agree is the legs the legs. so that's the actual practicability. so these agreements folks are not federal. remind you that even though even these, these agreement we'll actually war. uh, the numbers are very limited. if you can see the whole number of people that are arriving to europe from defense, possibly all the rest of the world. these 3 guys are very limited. uh, even a little more than the symbology. that would be something already buckled in us. andre, i saw your nodding to somewhat fernanda was sitting there and it looked again to me like you might want to jump in, so please go ahead. yes, the you with the vc use, we lost the money and us, you were, you know, see here. yeah, i see is,

is a strategy is a yes i got the other side. busy has been, uh, you know, major uh kind of the reason i see the one which is actually one day she wants to stop the mo, from starting from the 9. 0 wow. that's what she said today. as soon as the settlement on this way, you know, these are the, are supposed to be. i mean for is, this is a nash, andrea, when you talk about the prime minister expressing that they want to actually stop people from leaving countries at the springs to mind. something you mentioned a few minutes ago, which was the agreement, which i don't believe has been implemented yet. with tunisia, you had the entire prime minister going to to meet you earlier in the year. i'm do you believe that the framework for that is something that would actually help the

situation? i honestly so the reason for the music is not remote is not entire, sorry for many reasons. so i don't see how people would be able to mash, actually uh, in the and this is tanisha. the whole one is not printing, right? yes, it is all territory. so i see the, the bar, sorry, you know, matching migration and all remains the same on the same page. so we may use the driver to your brother at germany has decided to stop taking in migrants from italy until further notice. there had been an agreement in place of voluntary agreement between both countries. and i want to ask you from your perspective,

how much does that have the potential to complicate and already difficult situation? and i think it's, it's, it's very, very difficult specially looking at what's happened last year with data or the ukraine. and we're seeing a lot of america g is coming also from ukraine to germany. i think the numbers are of 1000000 at at the moment, which is not easy. so considering that i understand the, the major is taking here. um, however, hopefully this is not that permanent and ones, uh, any kind of discussions about redistribution of the or i could use it who are right now and it says your arriving in italy will be taken into consideration because we know that this has been done before hopefully i hopeful that this will be done again, but the feeling of people here to receive that a lot of people are willing to help. they want to help. they know that this is

a when the parents situation where it's not optional, it's not moral to lead people as talk in, in places where they are not able to get help. and the people who are willing to help, they are not able to help any more special. we're talking about their numbers. but let me ask you this. i spent a, a bit of time in line producer reporting on migrants trying to cross the mediterranean and get there. i've been to many places in europe, is spoken of many refugees and migrants and, and, and one of the things they've told me over the years is, is that they are so desperate that they are willing to try anything. i, as you said earlier in the program, that they have nothing to lose. a lot of them feel that if they continue to stay in their own country, they will either continue to suffer and be poor and not have a job, or they could die as a result of violence and warfare. and i want to ask you, if you believe that there are policy makers in europe who actually understands

because time and again, we see agreements being put in place focusing as we said earlier on, on security and other framework deals. but they aren't working. people are still continuing to try to cross the sea to try to get there by any way possible. do you believe that there are people in government, in any of these countries who are actually taking that into account and perhaps realizing that something else needs to be done? and i think so. i think they have been trying, um are they wanted to try over the, the pressure of dealing the situation of the switching that we have at hand. so with me, meaning that if you use water, you're already making them integrate to getting them into production. and dealing with this 1st was the priority. so in 2015, when there could be crisis happened and germany received the waiting for many refugees at the, in a very short period of time. the priority was to,

to deal with this how to do this at the end as to what situation and then focus on . why are these people leaving their homes, which is in my opinion, like you mentioned, is the root cause that needs to be dealt with like uh, i guess its mentioned like with the uh the, the discussions with the media. hopefully that will work. and um, because of the alternative is simply not good. people die at etc. and even those who are, who are, are i, they are not facing the best situations, especially again when we're talking about a bigger number and 7000 at the moment. i just want everyone to think what if the number is much, much bigger, what will happen then? fernando you heard in the past few minutes. uh andre. uh as well as, but they're talking about the role that tunisia currently is playing in all of this . and the fact that italy and, and other european countries would like to affect this deal with him to try to,

to stop a migraines from crossing the sea. i want to ask you about that because there is a, a debate as i understand among e, lawmakers right now. uh, many of them are quite upset about the prospect of a deal. and, and uh and, and there is concern also about human rights by human rights violations in tunisia perhaps taking place. so i want to ask you how complicated this could be and, and if from your perspective. busy is a chance that this could actually work a lot to my little is a g. the agreement is not operational yet. so for the very sing for resolve that you know which it chrome yes it is. first of all, something like 9 out of the me here in your kitchen needs a phone condition that the i a mass in the meanwhile, it would have agreed with a lower denisia, which to my mortgage is not yet the case. so the whole agreement is state or because of the fed, so suspended. and this is one element which certainly needs to be taken into

account. second consideration is that, unfortunately, i think that the 2 need, uh yes, you should try to uh, stop cheap for leaving from vision is just closed, but do you need uh, i have an interest in key and keeping you informed territory. these poor people that come from the south, south, south africa, and so they have an interest in trying to send them to the cost of euro benefits. exactly to interesting. so it's complicated also to ass good. countries like need to buckle only these old media to keep these people into their own territories. they don't have to me. they don't have the structure. they don't have the shaw says, it's above the full, then i need some to spend the time to get the send them back to, to the cost of your final thoughts as the obviously you want seeing that been seen

a couple. i think this is that a yahoo t and i'm tilting each, i guess the model you said the problem is to receive i don't think that the agreement can be considered as of the national. but then we don't have a lot of time left, but i want to leave you with the last word here. you know, italy says that it's lacking support from europe. you says that it's ready to help . i want to ask you, what you think could actually be done immediately, or if there are concrete steps that could be taken, that would actually make the situation improve dramatically. well, at the moment we uh, we have a problem talking about how this problem occurs. and can help in the future at the moment. we have to focus at the human tear in situation that the lumpy, those are the southern borders of europe in general, and getting those people to help they need whether be at the distribution them a fairly among countries that will stand and sold their t with

a to lee or um the bat at least sending help in any way, shape or form to those people. the facilities at those places are simply not enough to contain the amount of people. and these are the people that you need to. so in any way, shape or form, all right, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much. all our guess andrea demetrius, but the above and fernando natalie felt you and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website obviously, or dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also during the conversation on x r handle is at a j inside story for me and how much improvement holton by the on the

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