now, over time, i have learned to cope with this one way or another, i would like to return to where we started, to our experience, here we are sitting here, successful, successful, we are being filmed, recorded, but let’s remember ourselves at school, at camp , let’s remember those who bullied us, and imagine that there is a fourth chair here, the main aggressor is sitting on it, the main one, the one who bullied us, what would you say to him? i don’t know, for some reason it seems to me that those people who are actually aggressors behave so badly at school are, as a rule, unhappy children who simply cannot express this misfortune that is happening at home in some other way, so they try to behave in this way, right to him, i would come up to this person today as an adult and hug him,

i remember the bad school , bad childhood, i want to take revenge, and this is a good incentive, that’s why i work a lot at school, work a lot with children so that they don’t live like that, in a sense, i can even feel gratitude towards these people, but still, at least i reworked everything, or not everything, but at least with i live by this and live well, i haven’t forgiven you, i probably want to end our podcast on this...emotional note, it was the schödinger’s cat podcast, and i am its host grigory tarasevich, chief editor of the schrödinger’s cat magazine. hello, this is a theater podcast. and i and

its host anton getman, today we have an unusual episode on air with two guests at once, with whom we will discuss how there are two key theatrical professions in the theatrical process, in the professional process: director and artist, and we will discuss this with my friend, artistic director of the moscow drama theater named after pushkin, evgeny pisarev with the incredible wonderful artist of the same theater alexandra ursulyak. hello, zhenya, hello, sasha. hello, greetings, the route by which you got to the pushkin theater is surprisingly similar, you graduated from the moscow art theater school at different times, with a difference of 10 years, yes, you ended up at the pushkin theater, where i work to this day, tell me, that’s it what happened before emhat studios school, your dreams of becoming artists, they also coincide or maybe these are different stories, somehow we never discussed it, we discussed it. well, i

don’t know, sasha will speak for himself, but it ’s clear that from childhood i only looked in this direction, i was the same boy who was put on a stool, who, therefore, came up with some kind of role-playing games for guests, who came, hello, come to our store, he said, i’m there for my mother’s guests and so on, no, it’s clear that i wanted to be an artist, but then everything, starting from entering the studio school, i dreamed of... the shchukin school, because what did i study there? idol andrei mironov, well, these were all some kind of childhood dreams, but i didn’t end up in shchukin’s avamkhat, and this changed my fate, i didn’t end up with tabakov, to whom i applied, but there they turned the cards differently, and i ended up with yuri ivanovich eremin, who directed the pushkin theater, i was never in the pushkin theater, who did not know eremin, but nevertheless i ended up in the pushkin theater in general, well, almost 30 years, practically, well, with a little.

life, and i too, of course, consist of this, some kind of dream, although it also happened, this is also mine but i had a hard time going through my school years, and this is, in general, a large part of a child’s life, so

i was very happy when i entered the studimhat school and that was also, by the way, such an unexpected card fell to me, because i just had all my relatives, a huge number of them , graduated from the shchukin school, i don’t have anyone who is similar in this way, yes, but i never wanted, i didn’t want anything at all, i didn’t have time to want everything, just from a creative family, there’s a difference that i am also completely from a medical background, not having no relation so directly, and i always dreamed of medical care, but it’s too late, but... but the fact is that i really have all shchukinites, absolutely everything, and my sister, and uh, and mother, and mother-in-law, father and first husband, step-mothers, everything, that’s just everything, everyone is from the shukin school, only i’m alone, which means i’ve gone to a completely different place, and it seems to me that i’m even in

some kind of, there’s a drop of some kind of protest there, and i wanted somehow from me yes, i was different, i probably wanted to fight back, but in reality, if i’m being honest.

migrate from corpses to troupes play in different theaters, various performances, but at the same time many of them are constantly in their corpses, there is some kind of story that exists in academic music, certainly in musical theater, that today there is such one big drama troupe, which, depending on project, director, material flows from one...

there was so much, and of course, this is a house, a house that you want to protect, to which you want to bring, in which you want to bring, but sometimes it happens in order to bring something to home, you need to go somewhere and get something for yourself, and this is absolutely normal, but evgeniy sanch knows, i always discuss everything with him, so if they called me there, they called me here, i always consult with him, but not at the level it is possible or not, at the level it is interesting what you would advise, what you think about it and so on, in any theater.

and i may not give up yet, maybe i will continue further, i don’t know how it

will work out, but this profession seems important and interesting to me, as knebel says to teach by studying, this is absolutely exactly, i directly understand that all the people who teach, they study, they remain young, well, in a creative sense, or something, yes, well , that is, in some sense it prolongs the creative age, yes, or that this is an exchange of energy. now, if i want to be with them, i don’t want to be like them, but in order to, after all, the path

of a teacher is some kind of steps towards each other, and we must take them together, young people, students who want to be actors there, and i, who i remember being taught then, yes, i live my own life there life, but maybe i don’t know something anymore, maybe i don’t hear something anymore, and i still want to somehow not become ossified, this is also a way, and with pedagogy it is also a way not to become ossified, i once... then pokrovskaya, when he invited me, he said: firstly, you won’t be able to hack, i say, why can’t i be hacky, he says, because the people you tell in the morning how to do it, in the evening can come and see, in fact speaking, and - maybe it’s very simple, but nevertheless you always know how to say it keeps you in some kind of tone and doesn’t turn you into something like this, i already know how, i measured everything out - and so on, well, tell me, is this all the same? this is quite a difficult moment, as i understand it, in creative professions, in

theater universities, but not only in studio school, it still arises when some time has passed, two courses or three courses, and teachers, and the master course, yes, at some point he understands that nothing will come of this person, no, i can’t say that i was once very categorical in this sense, but... these are my mistakes as a teacher, because very often people who did not understand anything, did not understand anything, and could not in the first, second year, suddenly jumped out in the third, and people who started well, they suddenly withered by the fourth year and so on, this is completely, someone, someone actually ended up in the wrong place, for example, the studio didn’t work out there at school, went to gitis, something happened, for example, this is such an individual moment, zhen, here you're an artist... theaters have been in theaters for almost 14 years, please tell me, are you an artist?

theater, are you a collector of talent or do you rather prefer, or did you at some point prefer, building an author’s theatre? i would like to say that i am a nurturer of talents, because - well, if you understand a sub-gatherer of talents, this is all the best that there is - that means , like oleg palch, he was a collector of talents, absolutely, but this is a wonderful, well, such a buy. i would like the theater to be, well , this is my vision, there are different visions, my vision is still for the theater to be diverse, and for it to have many faces, and for there to be different approaches, and different worldviews, and different ways of existence, in fact, we work in the theater, which once was in its place there was a chamber theater, and despite the fact that tairov inserted everything alone, as a rule, there, but alexander tairov, but nevertheless there were

operettas, and tragedies, and musicals, and dramas, and so on and so forth, so something like this. we continue the theater podcast. our guests are evgeniy pisarev and alexander rusulyak. your wonderful cabaret project. i read, zhenya, somewhere you said in some interview, i think, that you generally you are careful not to enter other people's territories, in the sense that you do what you do better, and where you doubt that it will be best, that it will be better, you do not risk it. here is the story with cabaret, yes, because well, this is like a material that has, in general, quite a success, and on a worldwide scale, so you, as a person who agreed to do this, and agreed to do this in a drama theater, you had in general there is some kind of fear that there will be comparisons with

bob fosz, well, everything connected with this, for some reason it’s difficult to say that all this is already in the past. and since now i no longer have any fear, i don’t remember whether there was fear, there was a proposal from evgeny vitalievich mironov, there was my surprise and some sincere misunderstanding of how it all happened, and then his cunning, and maybe very insincere at the same time move, when i said, well, after bob fos, well, after everything, he says, no one can do this better than you, there is no person who, for some reason, i believed in myself or on...

the performance, which is already 10 years old marry bygaro, for example, i, alexander anatolyevich shirvin, yeah, and vera kuzmenichna vasilyeva, i knew them, vera vasilyevna came to us all the time, despite her advanced age, at the performance, shervin, of course, less often, but still, and i say , i dream that you come to figaro, come to all other performances, don’t come to figaro, he says, well, don’t

bother me, because when people were 20 years old, they played in performances. which, strictly speaking, is also to some extent a reference, well, of course, of course, and of course, even ver kuzemishen says: i’m afraid i won’t like it, but i really want to like it, which means, and i really like your theater there, and so on and so forth, so i understand people who didn’t like the cabaret and who are waiting other arrangements, another that are waiting for liza minelli, you understand, but liza minelli, here’s alexander ursulyan. i just wanted to ask about this, liza mineli, my love, yes, i love her very much, i was at her concert, and are you willing or are you like that, no, well, here, you know, what are the thoughts here, firstly, good , well, how would it be great story, great material, but to be honest, i always at this moment for some reason never thought about it, but my

wife is always decisive, whom i call evgeniy sanovich, 24 years old. and he says: sanya, such things are needed here, evgeny sanovich, i’m sure i can do it, you can, i just ask you, don’t get sick, in may, don’t get sick, i understand, okay, evgeny sach, that’s it, we had one like that talk. last to the start of a marvelous hear before i knew what she called on the phone inviting next moment. listen, well, it’s amazing how i observe this amazing creative trust,

even in the context of our very short conversation.